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eaglefly 11-12-2015 06:35 AM


Originally Posted by Cujo664 (Post 2009646)
Wrong again. The flow never failed under Parker. Since AAG took over from the old AMR leadership, they have done exactly as they said they were going to do. We've had over 500 pilots flow from Envoy to AA since 2013. How is that a failure?

Well, back at EL during the Summer, everyone was in a flap on how in June Envoy sent no one and arbitrally they were required to send a minimum each month percentage-wise. What they did to make up for that or how many overall they hired is irrelevant. This is all semantics though as all I'm stating which has caused another bout of Envoysteria is that what happened yesterday or today doesn't guarantee tomorrow. Same for ANY AAG regional flow "projection". Supposedly the E-175 arrival is theoretically supposed to trigger 30/month metered to a minimum of 50%, yes ?

30/month is 360 and 50% of 750 is 375. But, last I read from Envoy management it was "200-300" which is short of the Mason dance from just weeks ago. Let's see what occurs in January. If it's only 20, that's not a good sign of 360-375 for 2016.



Originally Posted by Cujo664 (Post 2009646)
I'm sorry you spent a lot of your time at Eagle during the lost decade, but those days are over. Everybody is hiring and every single pilot currently on the Envoy list that wants to flow to AA will have the opportunity to do just that in the next few years. We are going to be having more upgrades than planned as well as some hulls stay around longer that initially thought as well. In addition, I think there is a very good chance that Envoy will be exercising options on the additional 90 E-175's (aka "The New Seven Five") as well. Kind of like having your cake and being able to eat it as well.

Upset ? Why would I be upset ? Although I wanted to get to AA sooner (who wouldn't), I did OK at Eagle during the "lost decade" driving to work for $80-110K/year and am fine with my existence now. I hope those junior to me do better then I did, but whether they do or not, it wont change my situation. I look forward, not backward and my points about Envoy and the flow is that NO ONE can say with any guarantees what occurs forward of today.

You planning to flow ?

Well, then I'd rethink trumpeting those 90 options for "The new seven five's". That will only SLOW your advancement at AA once you get there as guess what they will be replacing...................YOU. Since you'll be hideously junior, it will likely then be I that tells YOU how sorry I am you are upset.


Originally Posted by Cujo664 (Post 2009646)
Don't believe 2.5/6? It's a fact. I've already given you all of the numbers and how it's going to happen. Keep burying your head in the sand but if you want a job with AA, Envoy is your best bet.

You've convinced yourself of certainties in the future and considering your present existence, I can understand that. From what Envoy pilots say at EL, it's sounds like a pretty chaotic existence there now and is likely about to get worse when your MEC once again cow-tow's to management and gives them Satellite bases(s) while RSV goes unchanged or unimproved. As another used to say here...........


Good Luck !

eaglefly 11-12-2015 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by FlameNSky (Post 2009697)
Yes, he stayed at Eagle for 20 years waiting for the flow that he is so disparaging of. Hey Eaglefly why don't you tell all the kids why you never took your own advice and waited around for the flow?

The flow wasn't around for 20 years and like many others the cyclical nature of the industry resulted in stagnation just like it's done to Envoy recently. I did have other job offers before and after I obtained my AA seniority, but after assessment, the flow seemed the best option. I had great QWL then too, but that was under the old "Eagle", not the present abomination of Envoy (at least according to many of its own pilots on EL).

I'm not disparaging the flow as it is a GOOD thing, BUT, one should mot plan on present projections as any sort of guarantee, that's all I've said. I realize this is driving some like yourself into complete hysterics though. :rolleyes:

Why don't you tell this old man why aren't YOU moving on to elsewhere ?

Gee, if you can't that must mean you're an un-hirable toothless loser like me, eh ? ;) Once you flow, I'll be able to attack you as one who didn't "earn his job" at AA and couldn't get hired anywhere else and won't that be a peach ?

Aviatrx 11-12-2015 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 2009726)
Well, back at EL during the Summer, everyone was in a flap on how in June Envoy sent no one and arbitrally they were required to send a minimum each month percentage-wise. What they did to make up for that or how many overall they hiredis irrelevant. This is all semantics though as all I'm stating which has caused another bout of Envoysteria is that what happened yesterday or today doesn't guarantee tomorrow. Same for ANY AAG regional flow "projection". Supposedly the E-175 arrival is theoretically supposed to trigger 30/month metered to a minimum of 50%, yes ?

30/month is 360 and 50% of 750 is 375. But, last I read from Envoy management it was "200-300" which is short of the Mason dance from just weeks ago. Let's see what occurs in January. If it's only 20, that's not a good sign of 360-375 for 2016.




Upset ? Why would I be upset ? Although I wanted to get to AA sooner (who wouldn't), I did OK at Eagle during the "lost decade" driving to work for $80-110K/year and am fine with my existence now. I hope those junior to me do better then I did, but whether they do or not, it wont change my situation. I look forward, not backward and my points about Envoy and the flow is that NO ONE can say with any guarantees what occurs forward of today.

You planning to flow ?

Well, then I'd rethink trumpeting those 90 options for "The new seven five's". That will only SLOW your advancement at AA once you get there as guess what they will be replacing...................YOU. Since you'll be hideously junior, it will likely then be I that tells YOU how sorry I am you are upset.



You've convinced yourself of certainties in the future and considering your present existence, I can understand that. From what Envoy pilots say at EL, it's sounds like a pretty chaotic existence there now and is likely about to get worse when your MEC once again cow-tow's to management and gives them Satellite bases(s) while RSV goes unchanged or unimproved. As another used to say here...........


Good Luck !

I think the majority of us at envoy are pushing for reserve improvements before we can address these satellite bases. Being that nearly 40% of the airline is on reserve, and the rules still have not been overhauled to accommodate 117, I am letting my reps know that we need stop working on satellites until section 12 is fixed.

The satellite bases are a get for 80-100 pilots. It is not the least bit concessionary. IMO we need to use what little leverage we have. If you agree with me, e mail your reps and or MEC

Reservist 11-12-2015 06:57 AM

I don't know exactly what the point of your continued posting is.

Okay we get it.

The flow worked for you, but Nothing in life is guaranteed.

Fact still remains, looking at the regional landscape, a new hires best option is probably PDT or ENY. No one is suggesting they don't continue to apply to the big 3 off the street. If you get hired by United or delta off the street first by all means leave. Like you said making 80-110k while waiting for AA/United/delta (even if flow projections don't live up to the hype) isn't that bad.

Your ruining this entire forum with your incessant posting.

Convincing people not to come to ENY serves no purpose, but it's obviously part of some misguided self-serving mission your on.

PilotJ3 11-12-2015 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by Reservist (Post 2009745)
I don't know exactly what the point of your continued posting is.

Okay we get it.

The flow worked for you, but Nothing in life is guaranteed.

Fact still remains, looking at the regional landscape, a new hires best option is probably PDT or ENY. No one is suggesting they don't continue to apply to the big 3 off the street. If you get hired by United or delta off the street first by all means leave. Like you said making 80-110k while waiting for AA/United/delta (even if flow projections don't live up to the hype) isn't that bad.

Your ruining this entire forum with your incessant posting.

Convincing people not to come to ENY serves no purpose, but it's obviously part of some misguided self-serving mission your on.

Thank you....

I rather have the flow in my back pocket while applying to UA, DL and AA. But hey, if someone wants to go to Xjet, Rah, TSA, AWAC, etc and don't have any plan Z (the flow) by all means good luck to them, it's their decision.

Like I said, envoy pilots can be hired off the street into AA.

Harpyr 11-12-2015 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by PilotJ3 (Post 2009751)
Like I said, envoy pilots can be hired off the street into AA.

How many have been hired that way over the last few years? And what were their qualifications and networking options? Because they weren't just cases where AA just decided to hire an Envoy pilot OTS for funsies.

PilotJ3 11-12-2015 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Harpyr (Post 2009820)
How many have been hired that way over the last few years? And what were their qualifications and networking options? Because they weren't just cases where AA just decided to hire an Envoy pilot OTS for funsies.

I know 4 with no mayor connections, just networking. 2 of them CA and 2 of them FOs with no P121 TPIC. I know 1 more pilot that was an intern.

Considering the last NH class without deferrals was probably by January/February 2015. After that they stopped interviewing.

RyanP 11-12-2015 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by Harpyr (Post 2009820)
How many have been hired that way over the last few years? And what were their qualifications and networking options? Because they weren't just cases where AA just decided to hire an Envoy pilot OTS for funsies.

There isn't many that do get hired off the street from Envoy.. But to be fair there isn't many at all that get hired from other regionals either at AA. 90% of the remaining street hire positions at AA are going to Military and "other". There is very few positions available to regular regional pilots.

Delta is the same, majority is Mil, then Compass/Endeavor pilots, then leftover spots for astronauts, check airmen, pHd's etc.. Then Masters degrees, then 4000 TPIC pilots who volunteer at homeless shelters and build houses for habitat for humanity in Africa on days off, then 8000 hr FO's, then other pilots if you are lucky.


Flow isn't bad to have as a backup.


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