My Personal Experience at Envoy
 

I've been casually observing these forums for months now and with all the negativity that exists in these threads I decided it was time to post something positive.

I was hired at American Eagle during the Summer of 2011. I've seen our airline in the darkest days of bankruptcy, merger, concessions, base closures, outsourcing, contract violations, to even our name getting ripped from underneath us and becoming – Envoy.

But to paint our experiences at Envoy with a broad stroke is disingenuous. Not all of us have it as bad as these numerous threads make it seem. I’m here to simply share my own. I can attest that flying with different Captains and speaking to other First Officers, my situation is not uncommon. But the angry and vocal voices, sadly, drown us out.

• I am approaching 5 years with the company this summer.
• I was displaced to Chicago due to the LGA/JFK closure but I made a decision to move to my new base and not commute. It was one of the best decisions I’ve made.
• I’ve been in a long term relationship, do not have kids, and love this amazing city.
• I’ve been able to maintain my CRJ FO status the entire time.
• I’ve been able to hold a steady line for over two years now. Since Part 117, our line values have deteriorated but trip trading allows me to increase my line value to 80-85 hours a month while still maintaining 12-13 days off before picking up open time.
• With open time available and the ability to break up trips (for turns, two days, etc.) I am able to credit 100-110 hours a month.
• In 2015, my gross pay was roughly $62K. With step 4 and 5 hourly pay, per diem, performance bonuses, 150% open time and 200% critical coverage pay I am able to make a livable wage.
• Now in 2016, with the addition of $2.5K retention bonuses every three months, profit sharing, and an increase in my hourly pay to step 6, I’m looking at somewhere near $70K. I might have to work hard to earn that but it’s also a far cry from simply taking my hourly pay and multiplying it by 75hrs guarantee for twelve months.
• I am young, if I simply wait for my flow to come, even using conservative numbers; I would still have over 30 years at American Airlines.
• There are some amazing people at Envoy. If it’s getting a beer at the end of a long day, going out to explore an overnight, or just sitting down for lunch in between flights - I genuinely look forward to flying with most Captains and Flight Attendants.

The purpose of this post is to share a different perspective. Envoy has its problems. Just like any other regional airline. But each of us can make our experiences here more difficult by focusing heavily on the negatives. Given my personal situations, I was fortunate enough to have a choice. I’ve chosen differently. But I’m not the only one.

Congrats to your happiness. Some there are indeed satisfied, others not so much. I'm not sure this needed yet another Envoy thread though.

Aren't there 5 other Envoy threads this could go in? Does this really need its own soapbox?

Perhaps it's hoped that it will reach more prospective new-hires ? After all, isn't that the point of most of these Envoy forums ?

3 replies so far and 2 of them are from eaglefly. Shocking.

Looks like the thread Nazis have arrived!

Yes, it's called discussion. It's what happens when people communicate back and forth. I understand that's a foreign concept to you though, what being more attuned to personal attack...............like this ! :rolleyes:

Shocking.

He is just merely "discussing" the fact that you being a former employee find it in the goodness of your heart to comment so frequently on anything Envoy no matter what it is about.

70k pay? Thats more than what the flowthrus are making at AA!



Good Luck!

Yeah, sure.

12-13 days off a month SUCKS. You have been here 5 years and you can't do better than that with a measly 80 hour line? Let's not kid ourselves either: the CRJ700 is well known for having MUCH better schedules than the EMJ145, which makes up most of our fleet right now.

I would honestly be astounded if you pulled 100-110 hours of credit AVERAGE over 12 months. I've never met anyone, in 20+ years, pull over 100 average for a year. If you pulled 85 hours of actual flying per month, you would time out.

My guess is that you did this a few times, are overstating your pay, and desperately want to sucker new hires into your ponzi scheme for self fulfillment. Either way, honest or not, 12-13 days off per month S U C K S! Especially for a senior FO on our Cadillac fleet. I guess its better than the 5 year FOs here on the EMJ in DFW that I fly with. They get 11-12 days off per month with 70 hour lines and virtually no chance to do better. If it is a matter of perspective between that, you are right, you are a pimp.

May suck for you, but maybe not for others. I'm not at Envoy, but I made close to $70k as a 5 year FO at another regional, and should break close to $70k again or just over it this year.

Yes, there are. And no, it really, really didn't.

If it hurts your butt crack just ignore the thread.

Freedom of choice and self control. Try it. It ain't that hard.

There are some issues with what he says. 13 days off. Before open time. Lives in base.

In other words, if you live in base, want to work your butt off to less than 13 days off, have no life (unmarried, no kids) other than work, and no need to worry about commuting, life is good.

OTOH, if you weren't willing to uproot your family from one of the 5 closed bases, get trips that you can't commute from (April scheds across the board in ORD all have a non-commutable sequences, some lines have all sequences with a non-commutable start or finish) you lose those 13-14 days off to commuting on your day off. Get a line full of those trips and maybe you get 8-10 days free of work related activity.

Vastly different perspectives due to personal circumstance and tolerance to working all the time.

JMO, live in base if you consider going to ENY. Otherwise the current schedule environment is punishing.

He said 12-13 days. I'm betting more like 12 given his generosity to the positive side of his numbers elsewhere. That SUCKS. 4-5 years ago, a fairly senior FO on the EMJ in DFW was holding 17-18 days off a month. Now 12-13 is considered good? Give me a break! And like you said, if your are not a young single guy living in base, the suck is much much MUCH worse!

You guys who think life sucks need to go work at some other companies. Like Mesa where I came from. You don't know the half of it.

I'll put it to you in caveman terms:

My life at Mesa: Bad.

My life at Envoy: Good.

What's your obsession with this guy? You have a counter post for each post of his. He's just trying to stop newbies from making an awful mistake, or at least make the mistake with eyes wide open. I mean come on already.

Yes, it is clearly an obsession, but to be clear, I don't think Envoy is necessarily a mistake for every prospective pilot. That is simply the misconception this small core of individuals wishes to create about me to discredit my opinions. For some pilots, Envoy might be the best fit. But there should be no illusions about timing of upgrade or flow which is speculation based on the most optimistic projections and as such will likely not be met.

Exactly, some of these guys at regionals that never did anything other than waltz into a 121 carrier have no clue what it's like outside of a regional. Go fly 135 freight at night, go fly 121 non-sked. I cannot believe how much easier my job is at a regional than my past jobs flying freight were.

Thanks for the post. Currently deciding which carrier I'm going to head to in the coming months to (hopefully) live in base and Envoy is currently at the top. Glad to hear things have turned around.

I don't think most have ever had a hard job flying. Or a hard job period.

Has anybody else found it curious that there have been quite a few "first time posters" that write a very well written and structured dialogue about Envoy lately? Is this part of their new recruiting strategy? Nothing against envoy, I enjoyed my time there.I just find it interesting. In this day and age I guess anything helps if it can get somebody in the door.

My Personal Experience at Envoy
 

It's relative. I used to have 15-17 days off. Now it's 11-14 before commuting. Screw OT, I'm not commuting on my limited time off for this place.

But I have experienced the suck of working for a awful operator. The abuse was unbelievable, and the pay makes current regional pilot's claims of food stamp-worthy pay looks like them complaining about fillet mignon. Eagle was unicorns and rainbows compared to that place, but unfortunately I see some tactics used by my former employer appearing here. I have no desire to put up with that grief ever again.

Look at the other regional threads. Your observations are not the "tinfoil hattery" that some claim. Desperate times call for desperate measures and thinking outside the box as the most recent class proves yet again. Make no mistake though, this is a VERY aggressive bunch and you will be viciously set upon and it will be a tag team group effort.

Questioning this group is NOT for the easily intimidated or faint of heart. ;)

Go throw boxes in the back of a piston twin at night, no autopilot, in crap weather with crap equipment and tell me that sitting in the right seat of a CRJ is anywhere near as hard.

Newsflash, it isn't.

But it is perfect for a narcissistic sociopath who thrives on dissent and conflict.

Nice of you to indirectly admit that EagleFly is 100% right in his last post above, which yes, you just did. As one of the leaders of the aforementioned aggressive and vicious Envoy tag team, I thought you were more clever than that. I was wrong.

Thank You, Leader, sounds nice. Does that mean that I get to eat at the Officer's Club? Life at SkyWest must be pretty great for you to spend so much time talking about envoy.

Folks like Hitler and Stalin thought so too. Add a "Dear" in front of that and it's a perfect fit for you.

Oooooo........more name-calling from someone bankrupt of any ability to discuss the issues like an adult and also must be a masochist who derives pleasure from his own pain as he cries repeatedly about my existence yet has the opportunity to put me on ignore but instead loves to repeatedly engage narcissistic sociopaths.. :)

Let's be honest. You aren't discussing any issues other than defending your own misguided self interest. Not once have I read a post of yours with one ounce of information other than your normal inane babbling and rhetoric. Face it no one listens to you here any more than on EL. You might need a new hobby.

Another thread down the tubes. Could the mods combine these grade school threads into the main ENY thread? Or maybe just lock this one too. No need to litter the forum with more uselessness.

Oh, and to anybody interested in working at ENY - I don't know who these clowns are. Every airline has its "problem" people, but holy crap I've never seen this in the cockpit. We aren't like this IRL.

I'd love to discuss issues, but all my time is spent fending off your teams attacks. Look at my post history. VERY few posts outright criticize Envoy. I ask questions no one in your group answers.

No one listens to me ?

That's funny. Here your clan and now you repeatedly engage me (actually by your own admission, make fun of me) and I'm the talk of EL tonight of many in this same group wishing they could run me and others off this forum to give you free reign to return to providing slanted info here for your self-advancing purposes.

Please.

Perhaps we are at the point where a 60 day moratorium should be enacted banning Envoy threads. You guys are starting new ones almost daily and several today alone. It is getting WAY, WAY out of hand. I can't see how you could criticize this suggestion as banning, silencing and censoring those you disagree with has been trumpeted by your group repeatedly in the past.

Why not simply remove the conflict ? Without that, the polarizing rhetoric is gone.

Hmm sry. Nice try. My "clan" being all envoy employees. Who is providing slanted info? I've seen no such thing.

You admitted in EL why you are here antagonizing me and you know it. At least have the balls to admit it instead of deflecting the reality.

Funny, I haven't made fun of you. I've stated some information from past experience and asked a few questions. Why are you so nervous?

No ?

Your first post to me in response to a well stated post of mine that attacked no one and didn't insult Envoy per se was, "Wow ! You sound even dumber here than on EL". Couple that with your admission on EL (even though you feebly try to deflect it) of what you intended to do regarding me is not doing that ?

Why are you so deceptive and evasive ?

We BOTH know why you are here and what your motives are. You are just like the others, bankrupt of adult discussion and enamored in juvenile conflict. Let me know when you grow up and have something interesting to say and then maybe we'll actually talk. For now, I've lost interest. A couple of your buddies are better at this and hold my attention more and so I'll stick with them. ;)