Envoy Air versus ExpressJet
 

Ok current airline pilots. I need help with regionals. I've chosen ExpressJet or Envoy.

ExpressJet.
Pros:
E135/E145.
IAH base (I live at LCH so Houston is perfect for me)
$37 starting pay.
$1.50 Per Diem.
100% Cancellation and Deadhead pay.
Great Health Insurance and 401K.
United CPP.
Access to many major carriers...not limited to one.
AP3 Program.
EFBs.
Aerosim Flight Academy accepts AP3.
United Airlines high pay and desirable.
Cons:
I hear bad stuff about ExpressJet about it failing and negative pilots. (Opinions)
DFW contract lost.
Negative results on the United CPP.
No sign on bonus.
I really want ExpressJet. Somebody tell me (preferably an ExpressJet pilot) the honest truth about ExpressJet.

Envoy Air.
Pros:
E140/E145.
iPads...maybe?
Guaranteed flow.
Sign on bonus.
ATP Flight Academy.
Pipeline Instructor Program.
Easy interview.
Cons:
E175 (I hear large RJs aren't good for upgrades)
My only option is AA. What if something happens to AA while I'm at Envoy?
DFW or ORD. Id take DFW but that's far.
Starting pay $26.00.
Low starting pay (compared to United) at AA.
Envoy sounds nice with the guarenteed flow...but what if?
Envoy pilots please help me out here.

ExpressJet leaves many doors open and I hear it's a good place to stay if all else fails.
I'm new to all this so please educate me and help me out. Thank you Envoy and ExpressJet pilots for the help.
I appreciate all the help I can get.

Just get hired at a major. Why go to a regional?


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Talked to an Expressjet FO the other day, we compared notes. Expressjet is a good place to work, like ENY pre-bankruptcy minus the flow. Very slow upgrade, but a decent atmosphere.

Envoy has issues. Tensions are high. But it has the flow, and somehow they are still managing to move people out despite the tight staffing here. They sent 13 this month and word on the street is they're sending 25-30 next month.

Haha I wish I could go direct

NO,NO,NO!!!, what ever you decide, stay as far away from ExpressJet as you can, go to some place better like Great Lakes!!!

I’ve been at ExpressJet (L-ASA) a little over 9 and a half years. The last two I’ve spent as a Captain in DFW. My experience has been nothing to complain about. My ultimate goal has always been to get on with the top 6 (UPS, FDX, DAL, UAL, SWA, AAL). XJT has offered many opportunities to improve myself as a pilot and I am thankful for that. There are also a wealth of opportunities to serve inside of the company that will give you a fuller picture of the industry. The work group has been fantastic and I can’t say enough good things about the people we hire. The training is among the best (if not the best) in the industry. My home is in ATL, so that has been ideal for me. The contract offers a QOL that did not exist at the other regionals while I was a First Officer. I can’t speak to that now, since I’m not up to snuff on what the other guys are offering. But for regional life, it’s worked fine for me.

As far as the future doom and gloom goes, I personally don’t buy it. SKYW keeps their cards close to the vest, and I definitely don’t have someone on the inside to let me know of their plans. However, they’ve been nothing but cunning when operating the business side of things. Through the tumultuous economic times, their companies have been lean and profitable. Did they out kick their coverage when the purchased L-XJT? Absolutely. But for the first time since the acquisition, all three airlines are profitable. That being said, there is still a long way to go. The combined pilot groups of ASA and XJT has shrunk by almost 25% in the last six years. On the other hand, Skywest Airlines has grown by nearly 50%. It’s difficult not to read into those numbers and think the company does not favor SKW. However, the company has made efforts to position us (XJT) for future flying. They have picked up AAL flying in the last couple years. The ERJ base in DFW always had an air of brevity, but the CRJ base in DFW is likely to remain. XJT has been among the best performers for AAL and the rumblings are that dual-class is a possibility. On the Delta side, we have been requested to move a lot of flying to LGA because we are one of the few carriers with the operational prowess to handle the fluid environment as well as have the pilots to do it. I think the partners respect our capabilities even if we do it at a higher cost. On the UAL side, I understand the contracts are up in 2017. But future contracts usually are not finalized until the end of the previous term. I expect no difference here and there simply is not the man power out there to shift they flying to someone else. In my opinion, the future of XJT is safe. However…

When picking a regional, you are picking the one that is most suitable to your needs. Where do you want to go? Where will you live? What is your financial situation? All of these things are unique to you and I cannot speak to any of them. But from a career progression standpoint, there are a couple of elements that we all understand. At XJT, there just isn’t a ton of movement, and movement is key to advancing your career. In a perfect confluence of events, we could see five year upgrades. But this would involve us picking up some new flying. We are slated to upgrade about 150 pilots in the next 12 months (8 per month plus a backlog of around 50). New flying will increase that and move upgrade to a little over five years. That is very optimistic and you just can’t count on it. That being said, there is an abundance of qualified Captains here that are looking to move on. They will be picked up in the next two to three years which will help with movement. The majority of the top 400 at L-ASA are looking to stay. It’s a good QOL and a good paycheck and a good company. The upgrade is important because it opens door. PIC opens doors. If you have the seniority to get a Line Check position, that opens doors. At a place that gets you PIC after three years, and a Line Check position after 5, you can move on to Atlas and get heavy time and be at FedEx at ten years in the industry. I can’t hold a LCA position because I’m still on reserve. That hurts career progression. You have to decide whether family QOL or career progression are what you are looking for. And that is personal.

I’ve gone way too long. To wrap up and speak to the WO flow… You’re gonna get on with a major. Is AAL where you want to be? Envoy is hard to beat in that case. But there will be such a need by 2025 (or whenever your goal is to be at a Legacy), I don’t think it matters where you go. Think about your goal airline and adjust your decisions off of that. I would also consider SkyWest with their IAH domicile if I were you. Good luck with your decision.

PS - XJT Per Diem is $1.85.

So you recommend ExpressJet?

NO,NO,NO, please do your homework, stay as far away from ExpressJet as you can!! Everyone out there could do sooo much better then ExpressJet.

Envoy pilots are not limited to AA only. They can apply anywhere while waiting for their turn with the flow, including interviewing as an off the street hire at AA.


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Is that all you can say? How about you answer the Ops question and compare Envoy and ExpressJet. There has already been one person on here telling how it is at ExpressJet. My experience at ExpressJet has been very similar to that persons. I dont buy into the doom and gloom that a lot of people here buy into. There are places that have faster upgrade time, but there isn't many places that can beat our contract. I have had a great time at ExpressJet so far.

I recommend people do their own research and choose the airline that best suits their needs and tolerance. They all have "ifs".

Nice!
Are you an ERJ Captain? American I'm guessing?

XJT definitely is the place to be to get to a major. Not limited to one carrier.

Is United leaving ExpressJet in 2017? No more United CPP?

My goal is to be an E135/E145 pilot for ExpressJet supporting United in IAH and use the CPP to get to United. Is that not an option after 2017?

Do either of you work for Envoy?

Do you work for Envoy? Or Great Lakes?

I would suggest considering Republic. Iah base coming soon. (I think)

And the amount of xjet guys on this post makes me think management or they really do sit on reserve forever and have as much time as I thought they did to give their life story.

Good luck but I'd say envoy over xjet and I don't work at either.

10 year CRJ XJT person about to leave here. I'll chime in with some of the doom and gloom they're talking about.

Both the CRJ and ERJ side of ExpressJet are mostly 50 seat jets for United and Delta. They're old and no one is making any more of them. United and Delta have said over and over and over they want those 50 seat jets either shrunk drastically or gone altogether.

The optimistic people will say that we'll replace those 50 seaters with larger aircraft and everything will be fine. What I see is the legacy airlines are pretty much scoped out in terms of 70-76 seat a/c. The only way to get more are to take them from some other carrier. The only reasons we'd get them from another carrier are cost or staffing. We're not getting them for cost because we're a senior airline with a good contracts. I'm skeptical we'll be able to staff any more planes. Both sides are shrinking fairly rapidly.

That said, both sides have good contracts and good crews. It's not a bad place to work by any means and we have excellent training. But don't come here expecting great news. In my 10 1/2 years I could count the times I've heard really good news for the airline on one hand probably.

Wherever you go will be a gamble. My advice is work where you want to live. Build 2-3 thousand hours and get the hell out of the regional world. Go to an LCC, a cargo carrier, or a national airline. Network hard and work on your resume/applications non-stop. Don't get comfortable at whatever airline you choose.

If you don't work at either then don't comment...

So these E175 are good for pilots too right?

How is asking for info from people at the airlines the OP is curious about not considered a part of doing ones 'own research'?

By offering up facts and opinions about the airlines in question without telling people where to go work and letting them make up their own minds.

The question was if I recommended an airline. I answered correctly.

The original post said "ok airline guys"

Not "xjet or envoy guys"

I have friends who work for both.

Why so bitter?

If your goal is to fly for a major/legacy carrier, unless you are a former intern, Captain's kid, or have built 10 Habitat homes, served a mission to the blind in Africa, and studied under Mother Theresa, you're going to need PIC time. Upgrade at XJT (either side) is virtually non existent. In fact, on the CRJ side, they are currently awarding upgrades at 8/mo. but not training them because they need FOs so badly. Captains are being allowed to fly right seat reserve for Captain pay. This special deal was extended by the union until November, and has been building a house of cards all summer. When it ends, downgrades are VERY likely. Upgrade time is currently 9-10 years at our most junior base (13-15 year Captains on reserve). I'm not sure this company will still be in business 5 years from now, much less 10. The regional model is dead, management and the union seem to have no game plan, and the mainline partners are tightening the noose. This is a super senior pilot group, with a good 30% topped out in pay. Payroll that high is unsustainable in today's cost environment. Something's going to have to give. Unless you live in an XJT base and can't/won't move or commute, coming here could be a dead end. I recommend looking at airlines like PSA, Mesa, GoJet, Endeavor, and any other with short upgrade time. The faster you get your PIC and get out, the better. Don't let the haters who regret their choice tell you those are "bottom feeders" and a bad choice. It's all about your career progression, and sometimes you have to take a big risk for great gains.

Good luck to you.

100% completely incorrect. Getting hired is about networking and making yourself desirable to the legacy carriers, not PIC time.

Thank you so much for the advice! :)

I assume you're at a legacy carrier then. Congrats! Not all of us got into the industry at exactly the right time like you did.

I challenge you to post some actual stats of regional FOs hired directly to Legacy carriers with no 121 PIC time. Your experience, if true, is great, but I suspect that it's not typical. And it appears the Legacy carriers are moving away from the "networking" (3 job fairs and you're in) hiring model, because *ahem* "the quality of newhires was lacking". ;)

Edit: The comment about habitat, missions, and Mother Theresa was meant to be ironic satire. Unfortunately, many pilots lack a sense of humor. But it's kind of true too, when applications are asking for volunteer experience before they ask for flight time.

So wouldn't you take a big risk to make great gains by going to ENVOY and flowing to AA. ?

I don't know much about envoy, but an important question to ask is how long it would take to flow, in seniority.

The "big risk" I was referring to is tossing seniority at a regional and either making a lateral move to another regional, or going to an LCC if the Legacies aren't calling.

There are risks at any carrier. If someone chooses a carrier without a flow or something like a guaranteed interview they are left slugging it out with everyone else to make themselves marketable. These days that means LoR's, job fairs, being a check airman, president of Habitat for Humanity, and being in the Guard flying F-18's on the side. It's a young pilot's game, most of us stuck from the lost decade have families and other obligations that make it difficult or impossible to meet any combination of these targets.

Or you could be one of the ones that gets lucky; picked up as an FO with a couple LoR's, one job fair and zero PIC.

One could also work on making themselves marketable while working their way up in a carrier that also has a flow or guaranteed interview. IMO this is an option that maximizes potential returns.

After the hiring computer has gone through all the names and offered up the ones with the H4H positions and the F-18 time I think they just throw darts at names on a list to pick a few random people that leave everyone around them wondering how the F that guy got the job at Delta at 25 years old with no PIC.

10 years in at XJT here, on the ERJ side. It's been a good run, and I can't complain, since my QOL has been pretty good, but I can't recommend coming here. My two cents- we're going to be a shell of our former self after 2017. Hell, we already are. Now, if the bleeding of aircraft to TranStates, Commutair, and Skywest stops, that may change, but I doubt that will happen.

And neither are envoy pilots.

I wonder if everybody responding would do so differently if they knew this guy hasn't even started flight training yet?

Jland0413, you don't even have a private pilot license, not even started flight training and you are already asking about what regional to go to? You realize that by the time you are done with flight training, if you even make it, all this information will likely change?

You've started 7 threads on this site within the last 24 hours, from the Major boards all the way down to Flight Training and you don't even have 1 flight hour. Stop wasting everybody's time, take a breath, slow down, and do some research.

Lol, hadn't even noticed that. Too true. Make sure flying planes is for you. It's a long road.