Looking at Lateral Move to Envoy
 

Hi Folks -

Thinking seriously about a lateral move to Envoy. I welcome posts or to speak off line about the good and bad of Envoy. Please PM me and I will call when convenient for you. Thank you!

Your post history suggests you are currently at Mesa, I'd say it is a no brainer you should definitely go.

I could go on all day about why a lateral move to Envoy would be a good idea. Let me try to be as brief as possible.

I made a lateral move to Envoy. I came from Mesa...and yes, I know...that is a very low bar to clear. However, I made the move to Envoy BEFORE the pay raises...BEFORE even the retention bonuses were being offered.

I made the move because I knew that Envoy had the structure in place to be a successful airline. It's like buying a house. There are things about the house you can change and others you can't. Color of the walls, carpet, kitchen counter tops..those are all things that can be fixed. The structure of the house? The layout? That can't be changed...so that is what you want to focus on primarily.

And that's what I did. And sure enough...I was right. After I came to Envoy we got, among other improvements, retention bonuses, pay increases, a new base, another new base looming, increased flying, increased flow, and now the flood gates are bursting open with new hires.

Point is...it's a wise move. ESPECIALLY if you are coming from Mesa. Envoy has the full support and financial backing of American Airlines. That's no joke when you are talking about the largest airline in the world with very deep pockets. Envoy and the wholly owned have the only true flow through in the entire industry. Each month Envoy sends 30 pilots from the top of the seniority list to AA...with no interview. AA has requested 40 a month from Envoy starting next year...so we will see if that number increases.

Regardless, your interview at Envoy can be the last interview of your career. No job fairs. No interview prep. Heck..don't even update your logbook if you don't want to. When your seniority number comes up you just go to AA. Simple as that. In the mean time you have the highest pay in the entire Regional industry, great medical benefits, THE BEST travel benefits on the ENTIRE AA and One World network, a bright future, stable company, financial backing from a Major airline as opposed to independent regionals who rely on their own money.

Yeah...this shouldn't even be a thought. Come on over. You will be so happy you did. Best decision of my life...I only regret I didn't do it sooner.

I really have an issue with people selling the flow this way. You're telling people to come over and be as lazy as they want, because they have a guaranteed job. You ask for people to be lazy and you're gonna start getting very lazy people coming your way. In turn it's going to degrade the culture at any airline. I personally can't stand the flow for just this reason. Even if a preferential interview was a formality, people still couldn't be lazy about it and had to put in a little effort. Anyone who is so lazy they refuse to try or keep their logbooks updated does not deserve to move on.

I would argue the opposite. Having a flow makes pilots more professional. WO pilots represent AA as if they are AA pilots. I made a lateral move. When I was at my previous non-wholly owned airline I wore a north face jacket and hardly shaved. At the WO, I respect the uniform because ENY/PSA/PDT pilots are basically AA pilots. Our pay checks come from AA profits, we share the same profits, and now are paid like professional pilots. The only difference is the size of our jets. As for laziness yeah it's nice not filling out a logbook. Just like the day everyone hits mainline the logbook usually goes on a shelf to collect dust for 30 years...

Just left Mesa to start Envoy. I don't put a lot of faith in the flow, because of things I've seen before with the ebbs and flows of the flow and how it has or has/not worked in the past.

My consideration was given most to pay and benifits. Envoy has pay and benifits multiple times what I was getting. If I get a flow, that's a bonus to me. Why not make more money while working on the next step.

They are all Regionals.

Not hard for me, go with the money.

If Envoy fits your base needs whether it's living in base or having an easy commute I think it's a sound decision. Hiring and attrition from the top will be robust for the foreseeable future which would hopefully lead to quick advancement. The upfront pay will likely be a raise if you're currently a FO at another regional. Good luck with your decision.

I haven't kept a logbook in 12 years. I am extremely lazy. I am going to AA in a few months. And I really don't care if you think I don't deserve it. Sorry I'm degrading your airline culture.

If someone went to College then after college went out and got their Priv, Inst, Multi, Commerical, so with CFI, II, Mei and spent time at a regional I'd say they are far from being lazy. LOL As for the log book really? You reach a point in hours and PIC time that is like Really? Kinda like McDonalds braggin' about selling 2 billion burgers. What's the point?

You want to see lazy? Get in a Dash 8 and fly 6-7 legs a day in 95 degree weather. Then come back and tell me who's lazy?

Someone gets it!

This is probably your best and most sensible post ever.

Let me guess. You tell people you fly for American Airlines. :rolleyes:

All true! Heck the E175 I fly looks very similar to the Airbus or a 737 from a distance. Flying DFW to Calgary Canada!

You've been a captain at said regional for the past 8 years? I don't need to see your log books, you're hired pending negative drug test.

If you're at Mesa it is not a lateral move.

They update our seniority numbers every couple months or so. I personally enjoy seeing my number go up about 100 numbers every time it gets updated.

It's a mini 73! Ugh.....

Bingo.

"Oh, looks like you've been to BFE many times in your logbook. How interesting. Almost as interesting as the last dozen regional pilot logbooks I've seen today."

That being said, not keeping a logbook is akin to placing all your eggs in the flow basket; something I would warn anyone who's not a few months from flow, against doing.

It's a great Plan A/B depending on what you want your career airline to be, but be ready to apply through the front door elsewhere if the poo hits the fan at your potential flow airline.


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I say American Eagle.

Hey, that's exactly what I say!!

So you're saying at a regional you can be unprofessional and then when you get that mainland paycheck boom you're professional...

Acting like a professional has absolutely nothing to do with where you are employed and everything to do with your attitude towards the profession. You just proved that other guy's point that the whole flow ordeal makes some pilots delusional and lazy. You can refer to yourself as mainline all you want, but as long as your passengers are holding a boarding pass that says "operated by" on the front, well you're still lumped in with the rest of us RJ drivers.

Congratulations though...I am glad the lateral move influenced you to display a more professional attitude toward this career.

Sure, for half the pay.

Regional pilots are notorious for rationalizing their mistreatment at the hands of management, but this one takes the cake. Is that what you tell your parents and your friends?

Ask an actual AA pilot of you're "basically an AA pilot" too and let us know what they tell you.

And let's get real here: you wore a North Face jacket and hardly shaved at your last place because you're unprofessional, not because of who you worked for.

Come on bro is this a serious post? What about your bank examiners when you have to disclose that you make about 2500 dollars a month flying for "American" or when that hot chick who you told you work for "American" wants to see a pic of your plane? You going to show them the 777 or your 145?

That's funny

I think he's joking... I hope he's joking... For the love of god please say he's joking and AA's wholly owned regional guys don't all think like this!

"I wore a north face jacket and hardly shaved."

For this reason alone, you don't deserve to move on. He then calls himself a professional pilot....lol smh

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

Where is Ken Bone?

They only filled 35/70 fo slots in the vacancy. Get in now lga is going very jr and willthe bulk of the upcoming classes.

Nah, man...All the real professional pilots think like this. It's so much better at a non wholly owned carrier, however. I mean how many dude's can legitimately tell people they work for American Airlines AND Delta!? I know the pride of representing TWO major airlines motivates me to shave every morning.

Me and the CA I'm flying with are laughing at this right now. What a joke. You sir, are a disgrace to the profession. Congratulations.
There is so much wrong here I don't even know where to start. There are some great pilots at these WO carriers. Too bad they'll have to fly with the likes of you.