Envoy
01-09-2017, 11:11 AM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Skyvector
People a few pages back were talking about how they will see their buddies at AA soon..."hopefully very soon". So apparently many of you are indeed looking forward to the flow. And of course you should. It's going better than anticipated, allows Envoy pilots to flow over with no interview and no extra work...and creates amazing movement off the top for AA's wholly owned regionals.
It's a great asset and the envy of pilots at non-wholly owned regionals. Why all the constant whinning? Nobody picked this career for you. You did! Nobody forced you to become a regional pilot...more importantly nobody is forcing you to stay. If you are that miserable...don't take it out on people who are not forcing you into a career you are obviously not suited for. In life, and aviation in particular there will be many ups and downs. Perhaps you need a career that is much more steady but much less rewarding. That way at least it's predictable for you.
It's a great asset and the envy of pilots at non-wholly owned regionals. Why all the constant whinning? Nobody picked this career for you. You did! Nobody forced you to become a regional pilot...more importantly nobody is forcing you to stay. If you are that miserable...don't take it out on people who are not forcing you into a career you are obviously not suited for. In life, and aviation in particular there will be many ups and downs. Perhaps you need a career that is much more steady but much less rewarding. That way at least it's predictable for you.
01-09-2017, 11:37 AM
#152
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by jetset
Frustrating but true. On both sides.
Here is the deal. Come to Envoy and know what you are getting. It is a Regional and always will be! Don't go to a regional expecting QOL. Come here to get your time and get out. Build QOL when you get to a major, and if you don't get out then you could be at AA in less than a decade anyway.
Positives:
Good pay
Good benefits
Great sign on bonus and retention bonuses
Great training
Outstanding travel privileges
Good equipment
Flow to AA
Upgrade time falling
Negatives:
Tough schedules
Lots of juinor manning
Lots of deadheading and long sits
Impossible to swap reserve days
History of poor labor relations
History of displacements, base closures, threats to sell, etc.
If you go to Envoy don't go expecting a career destination. It is still a stepping stone and a great place to get experience. If you get hired with a major great! If not you've got the flow.
Either way there is no getting around "paying your dues" in the airline industry. Envoy is a regional. Understand that going in and you will be more than satisfied.
Here is the deal. Come to Envoy and know what you are getting. It is a Regional and always will be! Don't go to a regional expecting QOL. Come here to get your time and get out. Build QOL when you get to a major, and if you don't get out then you could be at AA in less than a decade anyway.
Positives:
Good pay
Good benefits
Great sign on bonus and retention bonuses
Great training
Outstanding travel privileges
Good equipment
Flow to AA
Upgrade time falling
Negatives:
Tough schedules
Lots of juinor manning
Lots of deadheading and long sits
Impossible to swap reserve days
History of poor labor relations
History of displacements, base closures, threats to sell, etc.
If you go to Envoy don't go expecting a career destination. It is still a stepping stone and a great place to get experience. If you get hired with a major great! If not you've got the flow.
Either way there is no getting around "paying your dues" in the airline industry. Envoy is a regional. Understand that going in and you will be more than satisfied.
01-09-2017, 12:23 PM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by Skyvector
People a few pages back were talking about how they will see their buddies at AA soon..."hopefully very soon". So apparently many of you are indeed looking forward to the flow. And of course you should. It's going better than anticipated, allows Envoy pilots to flow over with no interview and no extra work...and creates amazing movement off the top for AA's wholly owned regionals.
It's a great asset and the envy of pilots at non-wholly owned regionals. Why all the constant whinning? Nobody picked this career for you. You did! Nobody forced you to become a regional pilot...more importantly nobody is forcing you to stay. If you are that miserable...don't take it out on people who are not forcing you into a career you are obviously not suited for. In life, and aviation in particular there will be many ups and downs. Perhaps you need a career that is much more steady but much less rewarding. That way at least it's predictable for you.
It's a great asset and the envy of pilots at non-wholly owned regionals. Why all the constant whinning? Nobody picked this career for you. You did! Nobody forced you to become a regional pilot...more importantly nobody is forcing you to stay. If you are that miserable...don't take it out on people who are not forcing you into a career you are obviously not suited for. In life, and aviation in particular there will be many ups and downs. Perhaps you need a career that is much more steady but much less rewarding. That way at least it's predictable for you.
Those of us with the most invested in this airline are the angriest, and that only makes sense. If we didn't care about this company we wouldn't think it was worth fighting for.
01-09-2017, 12:45 PM
#154
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by ORDinary
What a simplistic and nonsensical viewpoint. Why do you think those of us who want to make things better are miserable? Or that we have other realistic options (other than keeping our apps up to date/attending job fairs, etc., which many of us have done)? Or even that we don't enjoy our jobs?
Those of us with the most invested in this airline are the angriest, and that only makes sense. If we didn't care about this company we wouldn't think it was worth fighting for.
Those of us with the most invested in this airline are the angriest, and that only makes sense. If we didn't care about this company we wouldn't think it was worth fighting for.
Everybody and their mother has tried moving on over the past decade plus. There is a reason why so few have been able to...and it's the same reason why having a flow to AA is so important. Deep down you realize this, but you are so angry and miserable with your life you need someone to blame. The company you work for is an easy target. I get it. But don't for one second think you are somehow the authority on Envoy or the copyright holder of the "truth". As if everyone else who doesn't share your miserable view point is somehow working on behalf of management, or an intern for Ric, or whatever other conspiracy theory your little group thinks up.
And now your hatred is somehow coming from a place of love? You love this airline so much you want to attack it daily? Ok...let's go with that. So explain to me the "burn it to the ground" mentality that so many of you Eagle Loungers had in 2014. You know...since you have so much invested here and therefore care so, so much....
On second thought...don't. Just don't. I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. Keep on keeping on and do whatever you need to do to release all that rage. The rest of us are happy and enjoying our lives.
01-09-2017, 01:14 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Skyvector
If you have realistic options, why are you still here? After all these years you would think career opportunities at Delta, United, or wherever would have knocked on your door. Why are there so many Captains at Envoy who have been here for so long? Where are their "realistic options"?? Or did they sit left seat in an RJ for so long by choice?
Everybody and their mother has tried moving on over the past decade plus. There is a reason why so few have been able to...and it's the same reason why having a flow to AA is so important. Deep down you realize this, but you are so angry and miserable with your life you need someone to blame. The company you work for is an easy target. I get it. But don't for one second think you are somehow the authority on Envoy or the copyright holder of the "truth". As if everyone else who doesn't share your miserable view point is somehow working on behalf of management, or an intern for Ric, or whatever other conspiracy theory your little group thinks up.
And now your hatred is somehow coming from a place of love? You love this airline so much you want to attack it daily? Ok...let's go with that. So explain to me the "burn it to the ground" mentality that so many of you Eagle Loungers had in 2014. You know...since you have so much invested here and therefore care so, so much....
On second thought...don't. Just don't. I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. Keep on keeping on and do whatever you need to do to release all that rage. The rest of us are happy and enjoying our lives.
Everybody and their mother has tried moving on over the past decade plus. There is a reason why so few have been able to...and it's the same reason why having a flow to AA is so important. Deep down you realize this, but you are so angry and miserable with your life you need someone to blame. The company you work for is an easy target. I get it. But don't for one second think you are somehow the authority on Envoy or the copyright holder of the "truth". As if everyone else who doesn't share your miserable view point is somehow working on behalf of management, or an intern for Ric, or whatever other conspiracy theory your little group thinks up.
And now your hatred is somehow coming from a place of love? You love this airline so much you want to attack it daily? Ok...let's go with that. So explain to me the "burn it to the ground" mentality that so many of you Eagle Loungers had in 2014. You know...since you have so much invested here and therefore care so, so much....
On second thought...don't. Just don't. I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. Keep on keeping on and do whatever you need to do to release all that rage. The rest of us are happy and enjoying our lives.
01-09-2017, 01:38 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by Skyvector
If you have realistic options, why are you still here? After all these years you would think career opportunities at Delta, United, or wherever would have knocked on your door. Why are there so many Captains at Envoy who have been here for so long? Where are their "realistic options"?? Or did they sit left seat in an RJ for so long by choice?
Everybody and their mother has tried moving on over the past decade plus. There is a reason why so few have been able to...and it's the same reason why having a flow to AA is so important. Deep down you realize this, but you are so angry and miserable with your life you need someone to blame. The company you work for is an easy target. I get it. But don't for one second think you are somehow the authority on Envoy or the copyright holder of the "truth". As if everyone else who doesn't share your miserable view point is somehow working on behalf of management, or an intern for Ric, or whatever other conspiracy theory your little group thinks up.
And now your hatred is somehow coming from a place of love? You love this airline so much you want to attack it daily? Ok...let's go with that. So explain to me the "burn it to the ground" mentality that so many of you Eagle Loungers had in 2014. You know...since you have so much invested here and therefore care so, so much....
On second thought...don't. Just don't. I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. Keep on keeping on and do whatever you need to do to release all that rage. The rest of us are happy and enjoying our lives.
Everybody and their mother has tried moving on over the past decade plus. There is a reason why so few have been able to...and it's the same reason why having a flow to AA is so important. Deep down you realize this, but you are so angry and miserable with your life you need someone to blame. The company you work for is an easy target. I get it. But don't for one second think you are somehow the authority on Envoy or the copyright holder of the "truth". As if everyone else who doesn't share your miserable view point is somehow working on behalf of management, or an intern for Ric, or whatever other conspiracy theory your little group thinks up.
And now your hatred is somehow coming from a place of love? You love this airline so much you want to attack it daily? Ok...let's go with that. So explain to me the "burn it to the ground" mentality that so many of you Eagle Loungers had in 2014. You know...since you have so much invested here and therefore care so, so much....
On second thought...don't. Just don't. I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. Keep on keeping on and do whatever you need to do to release all that rage. The rest of us are happy and enjoying our lives.
That being said, I'd rather accidentally leave out a word than have a complete lack of understanding.
I don't have a "group," I have my own opinions. Not all of my opinions about envoy are negative. In fact, the majority of what I post here is merely pointing out the lies and exaggerations and inconsistencies of your "group." If they would stop posting their "360-400 next year, plan on 40/mo starting in January" and other lies, I would probably post about half as often. I am not miserable working here, but I am not happy that our QoL is awful. Are you? I am very grateful for the flow but frustrated that it is being exaggerated, and even a little mad at myself for believing some of the earlier rosy forecasts. Even more so than that, I'm annoyed that they stretch the truth to both current employees and to potential new hires. And admittedly, I have some residual anger at the entire Comair-II-threats-for-a-relative-pittance-in-savings-during-largest-airline-profits-in-world-history debacle. What sane person with a backbone wouldn't? I'm perfectly capable of being happy and enjoying my job and my life while simultaneously holding these views about the company. Sorry if that's too complex for you, but it is the truth.
01-09-2017, 01:57 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
wow! after 16 more pages it's still the same stuff...smutter and folks we get it! Envoy sucks, all is bad, don't come here, qol, schedules, flow may not work, management, etc, etc, etc...
Well for some it's not as bad as you preach. Two sides to the coin. Is it great? No. Is it terrible in ANY aspect you outline? No.
Let's move on and actually be constructive as jetset actually was in his post. If new hires or potential candidates have questions lets be honest which means without the constant rainbows nor without the doom and chicken little talk.
Some things cr and more so Skyvector actually have merit...although sometimes a bit fluffy by CR. But the constant barrage of all is bad, negativity is even far more from the truth.
Well for some it's not as bad as you preach. Two sides to the coin. Is it great? No. Is it terrible in ANY aspect you outline? No.
Let's move on and actually be constructive as jetset actually was in his post. If new hires or potential candidates have questions lets be honest which means without the constant rainbows nor without the doom and chicken little talk.
Some things cr and more so Skyvector actually have merit...although sometimes a bit fluffy by CR. But the constant barrage of all is bad, negativity is even far more from the truth.
01-09-2017, 02:19 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by SkylineAviation
wow! after 16 more pages it's still the same stuff...smutter and folks we get it! Envoy sucks, all is bad, don't come here, qol, schedules, flow may not work, management, etc, etc, etc...
Well for some it's not as bad as you preach. Two sides to the coin. Is it great? No. Is it terrible in ANY aspect you outline? No.
Let's move on and actually be constructive as jetset actually was in his post. If new hires or potential candidates have questions lets be honest which means without the constant rainbows nor without the doom and chicken little talk.
Some things cr and more so Skyvector actually have merit...although sometimes a bit fluffy by CR. But the constant barrage of all is bad, negativity is even far more from the truth.
Well for some it's not as bad as you preach. Two sides to the coin. Is it great? No. Is it terrible in ANY aspect you outline? No.
Let's move on and actually be constructive as jetset actually was in his post. If new hires or potential candidates have questions lets be honest which means without the constant rainbows nor without the doom and chicken little talk.
Some things cr and more so Skyvector actually have merit...although sometimes a bit fluffy by CR. But the constant barrage of all is bad, negativity is even far more from the truth.
01-09-2017, 03:31 PM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by ORDinary
Yeah, typo, left out the word "don't," as is "don't have other realistic options."
That being said, I'd rather accidentally leave out a word than have a complete lack of understanding.
I don't have a "group," I have my own opinions. Not all of my opinions about envoy are negative. In fact, the majority of what I post here is merely pointing out the lies and exaggerations and inconsistencies of your "group." If they would stop posting their "360-400 next year, plan on 40/mo starting in January" and other lies, I would probably post about half as often. I am not miserable working here, but I am not happy that our QoL is awful. Are you? I am very grateful for the flow but frustrated that it is being exaggerated, and even a little mad at myself for believing some of the earlier rosy forecasts. Even more so than that, I'm annoyed that they stretch the truth to both current employees and to potential new hires. And admittedly, I have some residual anger at the entire Comair-II-threats-for-a-relative-pittance-in-savings-during-largest-airline-profits-in-world-history debacle. What sane person with a backbone wouldn't? I'm perfectly capable of being happy and enjoying my job and my life while simultaneously holding these views about the company. Sorry if that's too complex for you, but it is the truth.
That being said, I'd rather accidentally leave out a word than have a complete lack of understanding.
I don't have a "group," I have my own opinions. Not all of my opinions about envoy are negative. In fact, the majority of what I post here is merely pointing out the lies and exaggerations and inconsistencies of your "group." If they would stop posting their "360-400 next year, plan on 40/mo starting in January" and other lies, I would probably post about half as often. I am not miserable working here, but I am not happy that our QoL is awful. Are you? I am very grateful for the flow but frustrated that it is being exaggerated, and even a little mad at myself for believing some of the earlier rosy forecasts. Even more so than that, I'm annoyed that they stretch the truth to both current employees and to potential new hires. And admittedly, I have some residual anger at the entire Comair-II-threats-for-a-relative-pittance-in-savings-during-largest-airline-profits-in-world-history debacle. What sane person with a backbone wouldn't? I'm perfectly capable of being happy and enjoying my job and my life while simultaneously holding these views about the company. Sorry if that's too complex for you, but it is the truth.
01-09-2017, 06:19 PM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 147
All Regionals suck. End of story. It's not going to get any better because we are working for US Airways management as their feeder. We are the streaks left in the toilet. No matter what regional you go work for whether it's Envoy or the like, it will suck until you flow or get hired by a major.
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