gasnhaul

Just curious about this. The way I'm reading the contract it sounds like if you go into SUB the company can offer you a trip. Can you then ask is this simply a SUB trip or a RAT (the contract makes it seem like this is at their discretion)? Seems like you can then say if it's a SUB trip I don't want it but if it's a RAT I'll take it at (since it now is at 125% pay). Is this correct or no?

Thanks!

Gas

pinseeker

You only get offered RAT if they change your original trip in such a way that you are put into sub, but the new modification still satisfies a legal sub trip. They will offer your trip back to you as a RAT trip first, then if you turn it down, they will offer it to you again as a sub trip.

The other way this could happen is if your trip was modified such that it took you past contract scheduled limits but still within FAR limits. Then they could offer it to you as a RAT trip, but you could turn it down and they couldn't offer it to you as a sub since it is beyond contract limits.

If the trip they offer you was never your original trip, it will be SUB.

gasnhaul

Ah, gotcha...so only if the original trip is modified. I couldn't really find anywhere that this was spelled out.

Thanks again...still trying to get all of this figured out!

NoHaz

It has mostly happened to me when the show time changes beyond the limit. The schedulers seem to try to avoid the word RAT and usually just say "just giving you a heads up your showtime has changed" Back when RAT's only paid 110% my usual response was, "if this is a RAT I'll decline the trip and remain in sub" RAT's are now 125% so it might be a bit more appealing to accept the trip. Just make sure they admit it is a RAT and confirm your choice of taking it or going back to sub. I've found that a very friendly tone from scheduling usually means there is an overage opportunity.

busdriver12

I have seen them assign a trip as sub, that would not have been a legal sub trip. The person flew it, realized the issue, then after the fact filed for RAT pay and got it. I'd like to think it was an honest mistake.

Pakagecheck

This statement is not true. A substitution trip is a trip that meets your substitution assignment parameters. A RAT trip doesn't fit in the parameters, i.e. a trip that's scheduled termination is not in your substitution window. There are times when your trip gets revised (25.H.2) when the company is required to offer you the changed trip(RAT) prior to putting you into substitution but that is not the only time they will offer you RAT. ANYTIME you are assigned a trip on substitution, one's first words should be, is this a legal substitution trip or a RAT trip. I used to fly a line where I would get sub'd multiple times a month. A few tricks are, Capt X, you are on substitution and we have a trip for you, or "If you turn this down, you are denying sub", and last but not least your trip has been cancelled and you are assigned trip xxx, the showtime was 10 minutes ago so do the best you can.

Realize, you can turn down a RAT trip and still maintain the substitution pay protection. Also, an airport hold is not an airport standby. Totally different. AND availability period and substitution window are two different things.

Just a recommendation but the first time you look at this you don't want it to be 2 am and on the phone with the scheduler.

Nightflyer

Please explain the difference between an airport hold and an airport standby.

Thanks.

MaydayMark

Airport Standby (ASTBY) is an actual trip pairing (which means that it pays per diem, even to sit in a MEM hotel) that shows a hotel name. In my case it was the the Germantown hotel next to the hospital. It "might" work OK for someone that doesn't have a crashpad. They will provide contract limo transportation from the airport hotel to the airport.

In the past they have frequently been used in conjunction with R24. I have always been called for a short notice show. In one case it was an hour callout for an International 2 leg deadhead.

Buyer beware ...

pinseeker

An airport standby is a pairing like Mark said, though it doesn't have a hotel room, just a sleep room. The hotel standby has a hotel room. An airport hold happens during sub when they don't have a trip for you, but want you to stay at the airport. If your trip has less than 72 hours TAFB and they put you on airport hold and don't use you, you have satisfied your SUB. Airport hold is a SUB assignment. If you are given airport hold and don't turn down sub, you are agreeing to be available at the airport for a trip assignment.

pinseeker

What isn't true? A modification to your original trip that changes the show or end of your trip by more than 4 hours must first be offered back as a RAT before being put into SUB, but that doesn't mean that any trip that starts more than 4 hours prior to the original trip or ends 4 hours after is offered as a RAT. You don't even have to be available for assignment until 4 hours prior and your sub window ends 4 hours after the end of the original trip.

If you are on a trip and they have you come in early and this causes you to go past contractual on duty limits for the next trip, you go into SUB for the next trip. They can offer you RAT for the trip they just SUB'd you on. You don't have to take it though because it goes beyond the contractual scheduling limits. This has happened to me.

We use to get SUB if they changed the layover city. They would offer the trip back to you at RAT, then if you denied it, they would offer it as a SUB trip. We gave up the city change a couple of contracts ago though, so maybe their isn't a scenario now where they can offer RAT and then offer the same trip as SUB, but if there is a way, they will find it.

Again, a RAT (Reassignment Trip) is a reassignment of your original trip.