Go Back   Airline Pilot Central Forums - Find your next job as a Pilot > > >

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.

User Tag List

Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-19-2017, 03:12 PM   #11
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 8

Must be signed in.

G8RB8T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 08:11 AM   #12
Line Holder
Horrible's Avatar
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: MD 11 FO
Posts: 45

Sorry to go "90 right", but can anyone help with the process to join "Jetflyers"? I do not do Facebook if it's the only avenue. Thanks in advance.
Horrible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 08:26 AM   #13
Freight Puppy
FlyBoyd's Avatar
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: FX 767 FO
Posts: 514

Originally Posted by Horrible View Post
Sorry to go "90 right", but can anyone help with the process to join "Jetflyers"? I do not do Facebook if it's the only avenue. Thanks in advance.
It's FB only. There is/used to be an email group but it kind of got phased out when FB came along.
FlyBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 09:31 AM   #14
Gets Weekends Off
kronan's Avatar
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 1,581

The advantage to doing the school house LMS prior to showing is an opportunity to learn the systems, better prepare yourself for your transition.
kronan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 11:54 AM   #15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
NoHaz's Avatar
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
Posts: 646

Originally Posted by kronan View Post
The advantage to doing the school house LMS prior to showing is an opportunity to learn the systems, better prepare yourself for your transition.
For sure... just wondered if there was any benefit in hitting that last button to be complete before or after start of training.
NoHaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 02:31 PM   #16
Gets Weekends Off
Albief15's Avatar
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,465

Instructors also check to see if you have completed it.

They allow you access a few weeks prior, but for my last (767) upgrade I was in the middle of trying to sell off 4 cars, rent out my house, close out a tax audit on my business, get a daughter accepted and off to college, etc etc. My personal life was a wreck--nothing BAD, just crazy busy before moving 8000+ miles away. Day 1 of class I had two pro instructors come up and say "hey...are you OKAY? Can you hang with this? Are you READY?" since I had only done about 60% of the LMS.

I assured them that my LMS not being done was a by-product of a very hectic life, and not a sign of indifference, and not to worry about it because by the end of week 1 I'd nail their test and would be just fine. Having done 3 previous programs at FDX I felt pretty confident in how I learn, and I would catch up very quickly with the online training. As expected, the entire course went just fine. My first week of class I probably had to burn time at night than I wanted catching up on the LMS, but got it done and had zero issues in training.

That said, if I HAD struggled on a test, PV, or MV etc I'm pretty sure it would have been pointed out that I showed up for class with those things incomplete. That probably would have painted a picture of me as a student that I probably wouldn't like if I had to do a TRB. As a guy who taught for 10 years in an F-15 schoolhouse I can understand their concern about a guy showing up unprepared, and I wouldn't have liked my approach either had I been the instructor. In this case, I highly recommend doing what I say, not what I did...

What I did do once complete with the program was write up a pretty detailed end of course critique. I suggested LMS be available 60-90 days out, not just (I think) 30 we had a the time. 30 days isn't much for someone moving to an FDA with the long list of things that gotta get done. I have no idea if they made any changes (and I seriously doubt they did) but I tried.

Point is--if at all possible--get it done. They are watching. And its more fun to go out drinking and dining week 1 with your sim partner than doing LMS cleanup.
Albief15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:06 PM   #17
MEMFO4Ever's Avatar
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 521

I did the LMS when the schedule said to do it. Not one bit early. I did study phase 1's and ops limits before Day 1, but the LMS I did on their schedule. In my case recency of information is more important, particularly since the systems phase is pure regurgitation. YMMV

None of my instructors said a word.
MEMFO4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:27 PM   #18
Gets Weekends Off
USMCFDX's Avatar
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,214

LMS is turned on 30 days prior for credit.

You can audit any LMS course at anytime.

I knew I was more than likely to go through at least the systems ones twice so I started those outside of the 30 day window and watched them again once they were turned on for credit.
USMCFDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:31 PM   #19
Organizational Learning 
TonyC's Avatar
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,290

"The Company" has been on a crusade for many years to reduce the training footprint. Substituting computer-based training for classroom training is one way to reduce the number of training days, but it's not such a great way to teach, much less learn. Even so, the time allotted for accomplishing the LMS is built in to the schedule, and that's all you get paid for. You don't get paid for doing any LMS early, and you don't get paid for any extra hours you actually spend doing it above what is scheduled.

The Company counts on us to do whatever we can to avoid training failure, which usually motivates us to do that LMS early. Most of us require that because it actually takes more time just to view it than what is allotted in the schedule, and it definitely takes more time to view, digest, and review the material sufficiently to accomplish the learning that used to be achieved through the classroom instruction.

I'm not discouraging anyone from doing the LMS early, because nobody wants to fail. However, understand when we do it (yes, I'm including myself), we make The Company's plan to give us inferior training work. The only way to prove their training plan is inadequate is to follow their plan to the T and fail. Who wants to be the one to prove that point?

That said, when I was a Flex Instructor, I never checked to see if someone had done their LMS. If they weren't prepared for the day's lesson, it manifested itself in other ways. I'm not sure why anyone should be concerned about how much LMS you've done.

TonyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 11:45 PM   #20
Gets Weekends Off
Albief15's Avatar
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,465

Agree with your points, but I think the place to fix those issues is with the Training Committee, LOAs, and section 6 work.

Once I commit downrange to upgrade, my goals are A) learn all I can about my new craft and B) avoid any extra stress by getting through all my events smoothly. Another issue is setting the tone and example for your FO, who may be a new hire. I pretty much expect that to mean there will be some times you may be carrying said partner if they (like me) come from a background with zero heavy or airline experience. My 76 partner was an unflappably calm, very capable experienced FO who was already in theater, so it was relatively easy for us to get the job done. Some of our new captains will be hearing things like "what is a flow?" and "why can't we just use the checklist?" I can only imagine what a LIMFAC I would have been had I got VFR direct to the right seat of the MD-11 from fighter.

Where I thought the training REALLY could have been improved was not having 0400 box times. That--and some shortfalls with Hack's--I put in my critiques. I CC'd the ALPA guys on some of those as well. I didn't appreciate doing LMS on my own time, but I detested waking up at 2 for a 4 am box. Most guys gaffed off doing any briefing and did it the afternoon prior. It worked--because the IP cadre really did care--but it was far from optimum for anyone involved. It wasn't a instructor problem, but just a resource problem...we just didn't have enough training facilities for the volume of students. Good news it appears the trend is improving with more sims coming online.

Some of the issues we have with training are mirrored at other legacies. It might be worth some work at the National level to design what we believe is an acceptable baseline of academics verses self-study. I have a friend at Delta who has done multiple upgrades at both FDX and Delta (long story) and he describes how much more detailed the FDX training was. To be honest, that didn't make me feel so good about being a Diamond flyer on Delta, because I thought our 767 program was a bit light...at least compared to my previous MD-11 experience. In any case, we are at a point I think some of the responsibility to learn is definitely on our shoulders. While the amount of time we "owe" the company of our own time to prepare is certainly up for debate, under the current system you better plan on diving in and getting some of it done on your own. There comes a point where professional pride and self preservation become more important than figuring out who gets billed for the timesheet. I agree with your premise, but figure once academics start you need to just do all you can to get good at your craft. Take good notes and then try to fix any issues once you are back out on the line...
Albief15 is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FDX vs SWA StillFlying FedEx 63 01-30-2017 07:05 PM
Waffle House and FDX? Snooter Cargo 12 08-12-2013 04:14 PM
What's the best way to get a job w/ FDX? Laxrox43 Cargo 77 06-05-2008 09:28 AM
Cash concerns again emerging SWAjet Major 0 03-09-2005 12:18 AM

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:28 AM.

vBulletin® v3.9.3.3, Copyright ©2000-2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Internet Brands, Inc.