Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo > FedEx
Fedex Pilots proposed retirement plan >

Fedex Pilots proposed retirement plan

Notices

Fedex Pilots proposed retirement plan

Old 08-18-2017, 11:43 AM
  #221  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Adlerdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,987
Default

Originally Posted by dckozak View Post
A lot of questions, most are loaded as any answer could be construed as self-serving. Our retirement as it is, is not fair to all groups and offers big dividends to some. Think about a second career pilot joining at 40, pulling down one retirement, than and there, while earning all the credits to receive the full A plan payout when retiring at 65. The only thing that pilot loses is incremental B plan/401K money which they may very well have been setting aside pre Fedex.
I'm a little fuzzy on this example, D.

I agree there are several aspects of our CBA that benefit one group more than another. VEBA comes to mind along with the age 54 dollars as well as the retirement bonus that may or may not be continued long enough for junior folks to have the same option. But crafting some kind of "fix" to our retirement to account for what someone may or may not have done before they got hired at FedEx isn't something we need to be trying to change, IMO.

The "second career" pilots you refer to are most likely military retirees (just a guess). I'd be very, very surprised if we have many other types of pilots on our seniority list "pulling down a retirement" while they work here. It would be a pretty neat trick for a typical college graduate, non-prior enlisted guy to show up with a full military retirement at age 40. I'd say that the typical age is more like 45. So, that's 20 years at Fedex, IF (big if) they work until the bitter end, which for many is unlikely. Talk to some of the the second career guys hired in the mid-2000s. They're junior, busting their ass if they want to make their high-5 and may not ever upgrade (assuming they want some semblance of QOL in their 50s).

So, I really don't think that's the best example to use if you're trying to highlight a disparity in our retirement system. Yes, there is a small minority of pilots who max out their retirement early and work beyond that. They've also been WB Captains for most of their career, have great seniority and QOL, relatively speaking.

The bottom line is, that it sounds like you're complaining that the current A-fund doesn't give credit for service past 25 years. If you want to claim our retirement is unfair because of that, then simply say that. Some guy that worked 25 years and retires gets the same size check as you who chose to work 35 years and you don't like that. Leave it at that.

Whether someone shows up a self-made multi-millionaire and just flies for fun or devoted 20+ years of their life to the military and happens to get a monthly check as a result doesn't make our retirement any more or any less fair.
Adlerdriver is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:04 PM
  #222  
Gets Weekends Off
 
DLax85's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,189
Default

Originally Posted by busdriver12 View Post
Are these plans being considered by the union anywhere in writing? Did I miss an email somewhere? Or are they just willing to talk about it during hub turn meetings?
Hub turn message was the union plans to get more info out in 2-3 weeks

They are looking at two new plans to "replace" the current A fund.

A "variable accrual" plan or a "variable benefit" plan.

No talk of increasing B fund (like UPS) and keeping current A fund

No talk of making A fund changes similar to what UPS did in their last negotiation

It's clear the union leadership has put in a lot of monetary and emotional capital into researching these new options and the train is about to leave the station

Some are asking why other options to increase overall retirement, without changing to a whole new A fund construct, aren't being discussed, surveyed or offered...???

How limited/focused will the pilot survey be?

Will it lead pilots to a choice between options 1 and 2 --- while in reality options 3, 4 and 5 may also exist?
DLax85 is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:06 PM
  #223  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Default

Originally Posted by PeterGriffin View Post
Not to be a negative nelly, but, I've heard the arguments about how they've "stressed tested" this new proposed plan in all kinds of economic downturns, but, have they looked at what happens if we lose the postal contract, and WB captains are now NB f/o's, what about another 4a2b? There are always gonna be downturns in this industry...right now, if I make 260k for 5 years and stay on property 25 years, I've got 130K at retirement. Will that be true with new proposed retirement?
Yea, the NC told me that they had stress tested this plan all the way back through the Great Depression and every year a pilot would have done better under the plan they are looking at. To me, that sounds to good to be true. You know what they say about that.

If they truly want to educate us, bring in someone who is against this type of plan and let them tell us why and then we can weigh the arguments ourselves.

Did they mention they talked to the company about this last week in the hub turn meeting?
pinseeker is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:34 PM
  #224  
Gets Weekends Off
 
DLax85's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,189
Default

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I'm a little fuzzy on this example, D.

I agree there are several aspects of our CBA that benefit one group more than another. VEBA comes to mind along with the age 54 dollars as well as the retirement bonus that may or may not be continued long enough for junior folks to have the same option. But crafting some kind of "fix" to our retirement to account for what someone may or may not have done before they got hired at FedEx isn't something we need to be trying to change, IMO.

The "second career" pilots you refer to are most likely military retirees (just a guess). I'd be very, very surprised if we have many other types of pilots on our seniority list "pulling down a retirement" while they work here. It would be a pretty neat trick for a typical college graduate, non-prior enlisted guy to show up with a full military retirement at age 40. I'd say that the typical age is more like 45. So, that's 20 years at Fedex, IF (big if) they work until the bitter end, which for many is unlikely. Talk to some of the the second career guys hired in the mid-2000s. They're junior, busting their ass if they want to make their high-5 and may not ever upgrade (assuming they want some semblance of QOL in their 50s).

So, I really don't think that's the best example to use if you're trying to highlight a disparity in our retirement system. Yes, there is a small minority of pilots who max out their retirement early and work beyond that. They've also been WB Captains for most of their career, have great seniority and QOL, relatively speaking.

The bottom line is, that it sounds like you're complaining that the current A-fund doesn't give credit for service past 25 years. If you want to claim our retirement is unfair because of that, then simply say that. Some guy that worked 25 years and retires gets the same size check as you who chose to work 35 years and you don't like that. Leave it at that.

Whether someone shows up a self-made multi-millionaire and just flies for fun or devoted 20+ years of their life to the military and happens to get a monthly check as a result doesn't make our retirement any more or any less fair.
Every pilot came to FEDEX for their own personal reasons. Each knew the pay & benefits at the time they were hired. Most probably assumed they'd stay constant or get better --- not get worse

Post 9-11, having a rock solid A plan and working in the more profitable cargo industry appealed to many of us

We all knew the limits & advantages to the A plan (25 yrs of service, 2% multiplier, $260K cap since 1999, high 5 anytime)...

...and the B fund (6% in 2005 with certain IRS and CBA caps --- then increases to 6%, 7%, 8% and 9% in subsequent contracts)

(Note: Many would argue these increases are quite substantial from a percentage basis, and provided a method to create a post retirement inflation hedge to the fixed A fund payout)

Regardless, improvements were made for all. Nothing was frozen in place and restarted.
DLax85 is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:48 PM
  #225  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 121
Default

Originally Posted by Busboy View Post
Assuming you retire at age 60:

With our current A plan, for every year you defer taking your benefits, your defined benefit increases 8-9%. Waiting until age 61 to receive your $130K pension would give you $141K. If you wait until age 62, $153K, etc.

I'm assuming that is based on some actuarial table. Less time to collect should reward you with a higher benefit, right?

Now, I'm not advocating staying...But, why is it that if you choose to continue working past age 60, your benefits don't increase by that same amount? With many pilots now choosing to stay past 60, that would seem to be quite a windfall for the company.
Excellent point
5millionaire is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:09 PM
  #226  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 54
Default

I have zero confidence in the Union on this issue...

I have been a Union member for 20+ years, "wear the lanyard," and have donated to the ALPA-PAC for a number of years. I like those on the MEC as individuals and believe they are trying to do what they feel is best, however the reality is that they are pilots...not lawyers, not professional negotiators, and candidly not the smartest people in the room, and will be outmaneuvered every time over an extended, contentious negotiation...How many times must we watch it happen before that sinks in?

Why are we discussing modifying our retirement when the Contract was signed two years ago? That's when it should have been discussed. When we had leverage...Take a hard look at the e-mails from the Union, particularly the "wear your lanyard" missive...At least four punctuation and grammatical errors in the last paragraph alone.

I know, it's petty, however the Union represents us, to the Company, and the World. I won't accept mistakes on the Union's part now...How many times have I heard "fly it, then grieve it"? That's bull...It would be nice if they took a few of my thousands of dues dollars to proof read their own coorespondence. I would feel more comfortable with paying for an administrative assistant than paying for a "retirement analyst."
Miso is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:14 PM
  #227  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
Default

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 View Post
First post I found with the search function. There are many others. The Irony is I was essentially defending the union position not the company's.
I think in the past especially during your contract negotiations, you came accross as selfish. As far as defending the unions position, what's was there to defend
StarClipper is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:28 PM
  #228  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 936
Default

Originally Posted by StarClipper View Post
I think in the past especially during your contract negotiations, you came accross as selfish. As far as defending the unions position, what's was there to defend
And again, what concern of yours is it of yours or any other non FDX pilot? What reason do you not want FDX and ALPA to talk about the A Plan for FDX pilots. I assume you must have your own selfish reason for your position.

Certainly I am selfish. I want what's best for me and my family. Do you think the first ALPA members formed ALPA (for Captains only) and risked their careers because they didn't want to make things better for themselves and their families? Here is a secret by working together we make things better for ourselves and our families. I certainly wanted retirement improvements in the last contract. But I knew we would not get improvements to our (still industry best) A Plan by demanding the company put in 4 dollars for every dollar improvement to the A Plan.

Neither here nor there, you were a prick to me so I am returning the favor.
Fdxlag2 is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 02:08 PM
  #229  
Gets Weekends Off
 
The Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: Socket Drawer
Posts: 1,797
Default

Originally Posted by Miso View Post
It would be nice if they took a few of my thousands of dues dollars to proof read their own coorespondence. I would feel more comfortable with paying for an administrative assistant than paying for a "retirement analyst."
While I completely agree with all that you said, you might take your own advice.
The Walrus is offline  
Old 08-18-2017, 02:33 PM
  #230  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 54
Default

Originally Posted by The Walrus View Post
While I completely agree with all that you said, you might take your own advice.
The difference is my words on a chat board are not representing 4,600 pilots to the Company, I am presenting my own personal opinions, while drinking Jameson. There is a significant difference.
Miso is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Albief15
Cargo
69
07-03-2015 09:59 AM
steamgauge
Cargo
95
03-24-2013 05:55 PM
Freighter Captain
Cargo
3
05-16-2005 06:00 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices