Originally Posted by pinseeker

The last time I checked, you still got $130K/yr if you maxed out the A plan. So that is still $130K in 2017.



The industry expert and the actuary companies all make a living selling these VB plans. I want to hear what the 5th dentist has to say about a VB plan.

Originally Posted by DLax85

1. Unfortunately, I don’t agree with your first point. It’s become pretty clear that keeping “your/our” A plan will be a collective decision, not an individual decision - thus somebody can take your/our/my current A plan (...to include the Years of Service a pilot has accrued)

2. Correct, the VB doesn’t do anything to the DC plan. Though our total retirement is based on both. Improving our total retirement plan can involve improving the DC plan as well

3. Please state source to this claim, and provide link to the video, Power point presentation or association document which makes this claim. It appears to be common knowledge that if a VB return does not meet the plans “hurdle rate” then the benefit will adjust downward. Even a positive return that fails to meet the hurdle rate causes a downward adjustment. The idea the fund can drop 49% without reducing the paid benefits is.....???

4. Yes - however, without a transfer/or credit of “Years of Service” between the two plans, those who haven’t maximized their “high 5” won’t be getting the maximum benefit from the current A plan or the future VB plan.

KB is very smart and very well respected, however, that should not preclude other ideas and concepts from coming forward.

It’s not unreasonable for dues paying association members to expect our association to diligently research, and publicly present, other reasonable options which work to increase total retirement benefits.

These other options may have less risk, increased individual control, without disadvantaging certain pilot cohorts.

Let’s keep the ideas coming - and critically examine each.

Originally Posted by MEMA300

You guys are making me wish I'd gone to dental/medical school.
We are fools to do this outside of section 6. Just downright fools.

It's like being offered FedEx Managements Blank PBS AGREEMENT. Can't believe we didn't fall for that except we weren't meant to.

We deal with this during section six and we deal with it in the same manner and with similar products that our brother and sisters at other airlines. Regular A-plan, Maxed out B-plan and profit sharing. Hey let's get retiree healthcare and JS bennies while at it. Oh yeah and do away with 8in24 and burn SIG side letter.

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

... did you really think I was stating we only get $89,000 max?

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

The current max value of the A plan is $89,000/yr in 2017 dollars.

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

The point is the buying power. Should we not raise our pay rates either? Or did you really think I was stating we only get $89,000 max?

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

#1- yes, we can vote out the A plan. I was indicating that neither the company nor the union can arbitrarily take it.

In response to #3- source is straight from KB's mouth at the AOC meeting last week.

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

#1- yes, we can vote out the A plan. I was indicating that neither the company nor the union can arbitrarily take it.

In response to #3- source is straight from KB's mouth at the AOC meeting last week.

Originally Posted by TonyC

I'm a pretty big "Say what you mean, mean what you say" guy, so yes, I thought that's what you were stating. Mostly because you stated it.





You also stayed that KB is "arguably the smartest guy in ALPA on R&I." You're right, that can be argued. The same is true for the converse.



This may deserve a separate thread, but we need to get off of this focus on 260. The CBA cap was originally twice the IRS limit, so a pilot retiring with a maxed out A Plan could collect the maximum defined benefit allowed by the IRS, or $130,000 a year. That limit is now $215,000, and it will likely continue to rise. A Wide-body captain flying just BLG today can easily reach $300,000, so a 50% defined benefit of $150,000 would still fall well below the IRS limit. We need to be shooting for a CBA cap north of $300,000.

Have you heard anyone from the MEC, whether they be MEC Rep, MEC Officer, or MEC Committee chairman or member, tell you how much it would cost to raise the CBA cap to $300,000? They've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to investigate programs which might -- MIGHT -- move us incrementally above a $130,000 benefit, but what gets us back to the objective of a Defined Benefit which equals 50% of income?


$130,000 is SO yesterday. We deserve much, much more.






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Originally Posted by Busboy

KB explains in the retirement seminar that we can easily get more than $130K/yr. You just have to delay your retirement benefit commencement date while living off your 50cents on the dollar sick leave buyback, 12month notice bonus, vacation buy back and personal savings, until they run out.