CloudSailor

There is a philosophical difference in points of view at the root of this debate.

Many - maybe the slight majority of our pilots, courtesy of our previous NC - bought SL’s “it’s the company’s line in the sand to not improve our A Plan. That’s it, this is the best we can do. Take this TA now or risk losing our gains. Take it now for the time value of money! Propaganda, errr.. I mean, Road Shows to follow!”.

I believe that “line in the sand” wording from our NC was weak, influenced by having run out of negotiating funds, and has set us up for a difficult road ahead in seeking improvements to our pension.

Our NC has already, this year, sent out a communication that negotiating with the company is like wrestling a silverback gorilla - does that convey us as weak and without a chance of winning? I believe so. Who could ever beat a gorilla? Not even Chuck Norris. And we ain’t Chuck Norris. We are folding like a wet towel before Section 6 Openers.

We need a different attitude: to say say that WE ARE THAT MOTHER*********G gorilla! And we have the upper hand this time.

Man, just shaking my head as I see this process repeat itself all over again.

By sheer timing luck (not saying the pandemic is good fortune in any way), we seem to find ourselves in a strong position for negotiations. Yet our NC, and many of our crews are stuck with the “line in the sand” perspective, and thinking of negotiating from there.

THE COMPANY CAN AFFORD IMPROVEMENTS TO BOTH OUR A AND B PLANS!

Do NOT trust ALPA to negotiate away your Pension!

USMCFDX

PM and his committee are pilots, and most likely very good at their job, but they are not professional negotiators or financial experts. They chose a path they liked and now we are stuck with them heading straight for the new plan that has never been implemented!

CloudSailor

Exactly. I had the pleasure of flying a trip with PM many years ago. Excellent pilot. Great, accomplished, solid guy. But, not a trained master negotiator or financier. I have told him directly twice when seeing him in Indy: Do not negotiate away my pension. Aim to improve it. Aim for modest, measurable gains. Same with the B Plan. Modest, measurable gains.

Unfortunately, they want to rewrite the book entirely, courtesy of CD’s legacy as departing MEC Chair. And they are doing it with the attitude of going into a ring to fight a silverback. That gorilla will eat their ********ing pancakes - which happen to be OUR pancakes.

You think it is painful to watch the Corporation expertly exploit language in our CBA? Does it suck to have a tremendous losing record against them at arbitration? Just wait until the Corp. does that with the retirement plan YOU voted away.

ALPA is great at many things - for fighting against fatigue, for getting your job back even if you truly messed up, for representing you if, god forbid, you need it; even for negotiating incremental gains to pay rates. But, ALPA coming up with a new retirement paradigm? No fu***ng way!

trashhauler

[QUOTE=CloudSailor;3146302]Exactly. I had the pleasure of flying a trip with PM many years ago. Excellent pilot. Great, accomplished, solid guy. But, not a trained master negotiator or financier. I have told him directly twice when seeing him in Indy: Do not negotiate away my pension.


Hey Cloud, you do know that PM doesn’t make policy on what to negotiate, right? The MEC gives him and the committee their marching orders and PM and the committee negotiate the MEC’s plan. Unless of course they go rogue, haven’t seen that yet though.

USMCFDX

[QUOTE=trashhauler;3146315]You do know that PM and his committee did the research and picked the plan they thought best and then briefed/sold it to the MEC.

kwri10s

[QUOTE=USMCFDX;3146317]Dude, there was very little "research" done. They contracted with ONE advisor that Chuck picked. He advised the MEC on several possible alternatives and "recommended" HIS program as the best one. Then off they ran with it. Feel free to ask them. Did Vanguard get invited to make a presentation? NO. What about Fidelity? No. Two companies that we as a group already had complex financial dealing with. Did they bring in multiple financial advisors? No

This process was conducted in classic "groupthink" I do believe that many of them want to do the right thing, but for whatever reason, the MEC cannot seem to get off the FART train track. The groupthink process we are doing would serve as an update to the academic Kennedy Administration examples they used in school to show how we ended up fighting a war in SE Asia. I would love to see the MEC invite six or seven large financial service companies in and have them each give a pitch for how they would improve our retirement. It cannot be that complicated to get input and it would probably be free if there was any chance of a new retirement option heading their way.

trashhauler

[QUOTE=USMCFDX;3146317]Actually a previous MEC chairman read about the variable plan and suggested that it might suitable plan. Then the MEC tasked the negotiating committee to investigate and come up with possible plans that the MEC could review. The MEC chose the Variable plan. Was PM and the committee involved, yes, but to say the chose the witch plan to go with, No.

USMCFDX

[QUOTE=kwri10s;3146446]sorry I too should have put research in air quotes - 100% agree with you

PurpleToolBox

What angered me was PM's speech during this weeks online ALPA meeting. He specifically talked down expectations on achieving UPS pay rates as their company secretly negotiated a two-year extension/raises while the rest of the passenger carriers are in negotiations while trying to fight off bankruptcies.

CloudSailor

Yeah man, aware of that. That’s what I meant by the legacy left behind by CD as MEC Chair. A more divisive strategy couldn’t have been dreamed up even by the Corporation’s negotiators.

CD left the marching orders, and the NC has taken off with them on a one-way trajectory, unable (maybe unwilling as well) to look back, or to question. All stemming from the perspective of “the company’s sacred line in the sand cannot be crossed”.

The protection we have is that only we as a majority can actually vote away our pension in favor of pancakes. We could also be protected by the possibility of the Corp. not being interested in changing the A Plan structure. However, with the full-on sales job already in place, and future roadshows, I have a dreaded sense of where this is headed.