Why I chose FedEX
03-02-2018, 11:45 AM
#191
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by JollyF15
Some of those are previous examples (preferential bidding a current concern -- some folks have been brain washed to think it's a good thing). Don't you think we could hire clowns like that again??
Answer me this:
- What prevents the future puppet lady from entering our ranks without a single person vouching or offering a negative recommendation? We need to step in protect our pilot group from being invaded by these clowns. That's hard to do with a "Keep out, enter with appointment only" sign on our pilot recruitment door. Doesn't it chap you a little knowing that those arrogant HR lawyers really don't want our input?
- What about the current bias in favor of unknowns without any recommendations?
- What about us passing on Rock Stars in favor of pilots just above the cut line?
- How unbiased have our HR (lawyers) really been? Is it just some over reach to prevent an EOC law suit due to paranoia in the PC world we currently live in?
You can say that was then (% of clowns on property) and this is now, but history has a way of repeating itself. You don't think we've hired some slam clicking, melba toast, overly sensitive pilots in the past 3 years? I'd say take off your purple sun glasses if you believe that.
Answer me this:
- What prevents the future puppet lady from entering our ranks without a single person vouching or offering a negative recommendation? We need to step in protect our pilot group from being invaded by these clowns. That's hard to do with a "Keep out, enter with appointment only" sign on our pilot recruitment door. Doesn't it chap you a little knowing that those arrogant HR lawyers really don't want our input?
- What about the current bias in favor of unknowns without any recommendations?
- What about us passing on Rock Stars in favor of pilots just above the cut line?
- How unbiased have our HR (lawyers) really been? Is it just some over reach to prevent an EOC law suit due to paranoia in the PC world we currently live in?
You can say that was then (% of clowns on property) and this is now, but history has a way of repeating itself. You don't think we've hired some slam clicking, melba toast, overly sensitive pilots in the past 3 years? I'd say take off your purple sun glasses if you believe that.
03-02-2018, 11:58 AM
#192
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by JollyF15
You really think that HR (Lawyers) don't have a bias? They currently have a bias toward anyone who is a "unknown quantity." All the SNAPs on this thread, let's examine the Facts.
1) HR has a bias in favor of those with ZERO PEs. The current ratio for offering an interview is weighted 80% in favor of ZERO PEs, and 20% with PEs.
2) Many (not all) of those without PEs are just above the matrix cut line to throw in the interview pile. We are passing on "rock stars" with maxed out scores from the Matrix in favor of unknowns with scores just above the cut line for interviews.
3) This is not a new occurrence. Since HR (Lawyers) have taken over our hiring, we started punishing pilots with too many recommendations. We actually passed on interviewing a Test Pilot Graduate and Space X pilot who had maxed out the scoring matrix, and happened to have over 10 letters of recommendation. That's not urban legend, it really happened. Don't you think that's just a little crazy?
4) Hiring "known quantities" matters. Our flying here is unique. Having someone who is vouched for by another pilot here matters. It matters because I don't want to be stuck out on a 10 day trips with someone who slam clicks, eats noodles in their room to save money, steals my passport or phone from the layover hotel, talks with a hand puppet, uses a checklist to tell me to shut my pie hole, lies about their past to get hired here, or thinks that preferential bidding might actually be a good thing. Most importantly, I'd like to have a pilot at my right three o'clock who has their act together when shiza hits the fan.
5) In the past, we were able to be able to give "negative" recommendations to the folks mentioned previously and keep them from infecting our pilot group. Let's just say there are some strange agents out there and they could be ID'd early through the recommendation process.
Does that mean we should not hire pilots with ZERO recommendations? No it does not, there are some great pilots out there who don't know a single pilot here. Wouldn't they score well on the Dr Kavorkian matix? That was supposed to fix this and score records based on their resume. How has that worked out for us?
There are also some "Rock Stars" who can't get any PEs due to the fact that many us us have already used our once every 10 year silver bullet. Maybe that's a good thing, it may actually help them!
1) HR has a bias in favor of those with ZERO PEs. The current ratio for offering an interview is weighted 80% in favor of ZERO PEs, and 20% with PEs.
2) Many (not all) of those without PEs are just above the matrix cut line to throw in the interview pile. We are passing on "rock stars" with maxed out scores from the Matrix in favor of unknowns with scores just above the cut line for interviews.
3) This is not a new occurrence. Since HR (Lawyers) have taken over our hiring, we started punishing pilots with too many recommendations. We actually passed on interviewing a Test Pilot Graduate and Space X pilot who had maxed out the scoring matrix, and happened to have over 10 letters of recommendation. That's not urban legend, it really happened. Don't you think that's just a little crazy?
4) Hiring "known quantities" matters. Our flying here is unique. Having someone who is vouched for by another pilot here matters. It matters because I don't want to be stuck out on a 10 day trips with someone who slam clicks, eats noodles in their room to save money, steals my passport or phone from the layover hotel, talks with a hand puppet, uses a checklist to tell me to shut my pie hole, lies about their past to get hired here, or thinks that preferential bidding might actually be a good thing. Most importantly, I'd like to have a pilot at my right three o'clock who has their act together when shiza hits the fan.
5) In the past, we were able to be able to give "negative" recommendations to the folks mentioned previously and keep them from infecting our pilot group. Let's just say there are some strange agents out there and they could be ID'd early through the recommendation process.
Does that mean we should not hire pilots with ZERO recommendations? No it does not, there are some great pilots out there who don't know a single pilot here. Wouldn't they score well on the Dr Kavorkian matix? That was supposed to fix this and score records based on their resume. How has that worked out for us?
There are also some "Rock Stars" who can't get any PEs due to the fact that many us us have already used our once every 10 year silver bullet. Maybe that's a good thing, it may actually help them!
03-02-2018, 12:42 PM
#193
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
Focus
Last 2 cents: Can we stay focused on the PE's? This keeps slipping into the old moronic mil vs civ, old guy vs new guy, fighter vs bomber wars. The issue is not "some of us" vs "others of us." We are one crew force made up of professional pilots with various backgrounds. Always have been. Hopefully, always will be. Some of us are old, some of us are young, some of us served in the military in the past, some of us flew Twin Otters and RJs. All good. The issue is that the current HR team deleted all pilot recommendation letters, and senior management told us that the new PE system would carry some weight in gaining FedEx pilot expert input into our future crew force. Not a "Brother-In-Law" act..."some weight" in assisting HR to find excellent future FedEx pilots. Some input from us, not just all computer matrix outputs, to find talent. Senior management officials, I am told, have now officially confirmed in public that the current HR team actually discriminates AGAINST those PE's on a 4 to 1 ratio. The PE is our only chance to pipe in, prior to the actual interview team on interview day. Is that OK? If you value this gig at all, no, it is not. I don't care who you are or where you came from, this should bother you as a professional pilot and we should come together and ask that it be corrected. Would those opposed to this effort really rather have lawyers and computers exclusively picking who gets to interview, and eventually fly with you in the WX, at 3 am, vs pilots being at least somewhat involved through all steps of the process? Please stay on target. Don't make each other the enemy. Solves nothing.
Last edited by Boeingornotgoin; 03-02-2018 at 01:06 PM.
03-02-2018, 02:28 PM
#194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 406
Originally Posted by Boeingornotgoin
I don't care who you are or where you came from, this should bother you as a professional pilot and we should come together and ask that it be corrected.
Originally Posted by Boeingornotgoin
Would those opposed to this effort really rather have lawyers and computers exclusively picking who gets to interview, and eventually fly with you in the WX, at 3 am, vs pilots being at least somewhat involved through all steps of the process?
Furthermore having a more broad based approach to who gets hired is a good thing in my opinion. Diversity of experience and thought can and does produce improved outcomes.
The company doesn't give a flip about who you want to fly with, but they do allow pilots to have a great deal of influence once selected candidates arrive for an interview. Their (meaning the PILOTS who conduct the face to face and the SBI) job is to assess the candidate's experience, personality, and capabilities. Is that sufficient? sure.
The reason this devolved into a mil vs civilian thing is because one side of that conversation believes that the process is biased against them and their candidates of choice. They have indicated more weight for PE's would change that. They drove that point home by trying shade the latest crop of newhires, emphasis on civilian pilots and in particular RJ drivers, as overly sensitive unqualified usurpers. I've never flown an RJ but the brush was broad enough for folks to understand the meaning.
03-02-2018, 03:31 PM
#196
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by Moosefire
This entire threat needs to die... what a terrible impression for the guys on here that might be interested in working at FedEx that may not have a PE.
03-02-2018, 03:48 PM
#197
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: MD-11/C-17
Posts: 257
Originally Posted by JollyF15
Yea, all the management SNAPs would want the message to die. Let's just keep our AFU'd screening program and hire as many SNAPs as possible. Let's just kill our PE program which actually hurts guys and hire a bunch of unknown quantities. What could possibly go wrong with that.
03-02-2018, 03:55 PM
#198
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by JollyF15
Yea, all the management SNAPs would want the message to die. Let's just keep our AFU'd screening program and hire as many SNAPs as possible. Let's just kill our PE program which actually hurts guys and hire a bunch of unknown quantities. What could possibly go wrong with that.
Survivors Network Abused by Priests?
03-02-2018, 04:38 PM
#200
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
CU
OK, I never said anything about beers.
My point was about using our collective years of aviation expertise to help FedEx leadership find the most competent pilots (from all sources) to join our team. Again new to this APC...just trying to make reasonable points, based on real numbers vs emotion, to look into the issues raised on page 1. As the Capt stated in the Op-Ed, I am proud to be at FedEx, and I want the best for the company, but this thread no longer is aimed in the right direction (IMHO). Hopefully, leaders lead, problems are identified or refuted, and reasonable solutions will be found, but we're obviously, not going to find solutions here. Out. Thanks for all points of view. My APC experience is now over. One of these threads is enough.
My point was about using our collective years of aviation expertise to help FedEx leadership find the most competent pilots (from all sources) to join our team. Again new to this APC...just trying to make reasonable points, based on real numbers vs emotion, to look into the issues raised on page 1. As the Capt stated in the Op-Ed, I am proud to be at FedEx, and I want the best for the company, but this thread no longer is aimed in the right direction (IMHO). Hopefully, leaders lead, problems are identified or refuted, and reasonable solutions will be found, but we're obviously, not going to find solutions here. Out. Thanks for all points of view. My APC experience is now over. One of these threads is enough.
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