1-3yr pay as a FedEx FO
 

Good evening, first post I know..

I have an opportunity at FedEx but have a pretty good gig where I sit too. I didn't do but just a couple interviews as a result.

Ive heard what first year pay is and guess its around the 70k mark. However what about 2-3 or even 5. Im trying to figure out if I leave a 250'ish job how long it will take me to recover and make headway.

I know all about the A and B plan but Im leaving retirement out of the discussion for now.

advice/help is greatly appreciated.

This is almost impossible to answer. Depending on your tolerance for being junior you could be back to making that money within 2 to 3 years based on the trend of recent bids.

If you choose to stay in the right seat a little longer for seniority purposes then obviously it takes a little longer.

UA

So crewmembers are basically making strait BUG no soft money?

Ive heard some FO’s bragging about some pretty serious paychecks? Not on here buy in person.



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Thanks,

Ive heard so many figures from so many people Im starting to get dizzy.

Ive heard FO’s state very hi-200’s and thought there was some embellishment going on. I seriously do understand what your saying too. I know guys that live behind that yoke and make a ton but their alone in life too.


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Your current job sounds pretty good, however one thing to consider is the generous retirement packages FedEx has over many others. Don’t forget to calculate that into your decision to leave your current employer.

And compare work rules. And such.. Money is only one piece of the equation. Our vacation is incredible and worth working here

as well as the security of working at a diversified company that makes money in several different ways.

At the end...
 

Like many others I had to choose between several options.

I took the information currently at hand ....pay, retirement QoL etc. Then I tried to picture myself at the end of my career and asked....which of these choices do I think would be best at the end of my career knowing what I know right now?

We can’t anticipate all of the changes that might happen....but those unknowns can affect either job.

Good Luck with your decision!

I am on 3rd year wide body FO pay, last year I did 220k I worked hard and picked up as much as I could, did a little at draft pay also (1.5)

I am shooting for $240k this year!

Upgrade to the 757 is sitting at 1.5 years on property. Plus a little time to train tacked on.

Sincere questions:
Why haven''t you taken the 1.5 year upgrade? more coin doing your current strategy? lifestyle?

How many trained and released to line flying 757 captains with a 1.5 year seniority? or is it really a longer period as F/O waiting for training? i.e what is DOH of the junior MEM 757 CPT bidding/flying as CPT
Thx
SD

No 1.5 year Capts yet. Based on the most recent system bid, some VERY JUNIOR FOs will be eligible to bid for 757CA training in May. Whether or not they get those slots is TBD.
A more realistic expectation is to be trained as a 757CA in year three. Maybe late in year two if the stars align. YMMV.

They plan 14-20 757 Captains trained per month. @20 per month they can clear the list in 6 months. May +6mo = Nov = peak.

If that happens there will be 757 Captains with less than 2 years on property flying the line and many more with less than 2.5 years on the line.

The current awarded ITU training slots are going to guys that were awarded MEM 757C on posting 16-01 so I think it'll still take quite some time before posting 18-01 training begins.

You can make a lot of money here; or you can move to base, sit reserve, not fly more than a few days a month and still make a good living. Lots of opportunities to figure out what makes you happy here.

How many days off do you get each month after picking up to hit these figures?

Which jet?

FCIF says May...hence I started my statement with May training. Training letter seems to support this but who knows anymore!

Keep em rolling! The faster the better!

How secure is your current gig? Yeah, in the minds of most 91 guys, they're all secure. In reality, most are just one death or new CEO away from losing their airplane(s) and being out of a job.

I had a great 91 job as well, but left for Brown. Mine was fairly secure, but likely if the HNWI passed away, the airplanes would disappear too. I didn't want to take that risk and when UPS called, I didn't have to think twice about it.

How many pilots do you meet at an FBO that have been in their current position for 20+ years? In my 16 years of charter and corporate flying, I could probably count them on one hand. It's generally a whole career of job hopping, layoffs, mergers, etc.

currently sitting on the Bus

I elected not to upgrade because I wanted to enjoy a little seniority for a bit. Bid mostly day flying or double dead head trips.

Like my post said guys were awarded the left seat of the 757 but haven't trained. But like the other guys said probably in the next year they will be.

If you start on the 75 and then are awarded something different on a later bid, but have to wait to start training, are you paid at the new aircraft’s higher rate while you wait? Or do you keep getting paid the same until you train on the new metal?

Most folks who crunch the numbers come to realize whatever pay raise they may see on paper is hardly worth it in terms of the QOL trade-off.

777 FO vs 757 C is usually a pay cut. 777 lines tend to pay more than 757 lines with equal days off. Once flown, 777 trips typically capture 4-6 more hours on top of their advertised pay. So, a 757 C (commuter) on reserve is going to get paid less than 1000 CH per year while working the max days each month. A 777 FO line-holder is going to probably going to get paid at least 1100 CH per year and have 2-3 days off extra each month. When you figure the pay per day it's eye-watering. A 777 FO who can hold 3 extra days of carryover each month can make the same as a reserve Captain on a domestic wide-body while working the same number of days. Even the domestic WB FOs can get pretty close to these numbers with a little carryover and schedule kung fu... and earn the extra coin on their own schedule and terms. Unless you're living in domicile, can hold your home town or can't even hold a WB line as an FO anyway, it's hard to justify the NB Captain numbers for the job those guys do.

How we get commuters who can't hold their home town or some other personal factor to bid the 757C seat is beyond me. Some guys just have to have those 4-stripes..... and they earn every penny to have them.

So what's the $4000/month new hire pay? Is that just during training or are 1st years FOs making $48,000?

$4,000/mo. is just for when you're in the school house during training and IOE. Once you're signed off for IOE, you're on first year pay for the rest of the year until your hire date anniversary. Plan on four months of training and eight months on year 1 pay.

There is a reason the bottom 10% of the bid packs are so junior. So I will agree with the QOL. But I disagree with the $ argument

You’re numbers don’t add up. I’ll use year 3 for example.
75C = 237K. 77F = 190K. With you’re 1000/1100 hour assumption

Did you account for international override on the 777 numbers? Won’t close the gap but gets it a little closer.

UA

Thanks for the responses gents.
Cheers

I didn’t. I just used raw pay rates. I was also too lazy to grab the contract so I just used the rates from this website..

:D You dispute my numbers but don't bother to crack the CBA or do some basic math.... so here you go: I'll use your year three numbers for our current pay scale.

757C commuter on reserve every month. Works max days each month (yes, I consider sitting in a crash pad on reserve work). He gets paid about 940CH per year while working 196 days per year.
$223,175
Even though we're not quite there yet, I'll be generous and throw in a 9% B-fund contribution ($20,100) for a grand total of $243,275.
That works out to $1241 per day.

777F commuter holding a line with no carryover - 1040 CH per year (i.e. Me when I made this spread sheet). That's done working 2-3 days less each month for a total days worked per year of 168. (So, we're talking 28 days per year less work than the guy on reserve. That's basically 2 months of work days less). I'll factor in the $8/hour int'l override we get on almost every hour and the B-fund as well.
Total - $205,386
That works out to $1223 per day.

So, for an extra $18 per day, a 3rd year 777 FO can be a 757 Captain.

If the 777F can hold and work 3 days of carryover each month then the pay disparity is gone. They work the same number of days per year (within 6) for the same annual pay-check doing very, very different jobs.

Crunch the same numbers for 15 year+ pilots at the max pay rates and you can make a very similar argument regarding a commuter WB domestic reserve Captain vs 777 FO.

Obviously living in domicile is a completely different situation. Some folks don't want the long haul life-style, others can hold their home town, I get it. There are lots of reasons folks choose what they choose and I'm not trying to cast stones. Salty asked and I tried to offer one possible answer.

My take-away when I did my research was being a WB Captain on reserve as a commuter just isn't worth the huge drop on QOL for what amounts to a very small increase in pay per day worked (for me, in my situation). NB Captain isn't even in the ball park. If I'm willing to work the same number of days as I would be working on reserve while still in the right seat of the 777, then I can make similar money to a reserve WB Captain. I need to be a solid line holder in the left seat to start seeing a true pay benefit (and that's still going to be a QOL drop most likely).

I’m not debating QOL. I agreed..

I just used your 1000/1100 hours with pay rates.. It is simple math and that’s it. Pay rate multiplied by pay hours. And not to get too far in the weeds, if you use carryover to get back the pay differential aren’t you now working the same number of days (as the reserve 75C)?

I am not honestly interested in debating this whole thing. But the whole 777 FOs make the same as 757 Capts is mathematically impossible without increasing the hours. You used 100 more in your example and it’s wrong. Plus you do know 75C get international override from time to time also.

I have heard ever since the triple came on property that 77F make more than than 75C and that may be true but only by increasing pay hours.

Alderdriver.. I just reread your original post and realized below average reading on my part. You said pay raise doesn’t offset QOL. I misunderstood and thought you were saying 77F made same or more which I have heard folks saying for a long time. My bad.. I think we are mostly in agreement. :D

Okay.
But based on your response just above, we still seem to differ some.

Yes, on paper there is a pay disparity between the two seats at the same longevity. Take a look at my numbers and consider the very important factor of actual work days in each calendar month versus pay earned in that same month. The pay per day tells the story. That's the QOL argument.

Without even figuring in carryover, I earned an extra 100 CH per year as a 777 FO lineholder. How is that wrong? That's what I got paid in the year I started looking at this. No carryover, no magic. 1040 CH as a 777 FO lineholder. RLG is set for the 757C. That ends up being 940 CH per year. If you start rounding and just doing the 1000 CH x rate per year thing to get a ball park salary, it's not accurate.

Yes, I use carryover to make up the disparity. THEN I am working the same number of days as the 757C, you're correct. He's getting R-day pay for each of those days. On the other hand, I'm getting more bang for my buck per day because I'm actually flying and I'm not even figuring in BKO hours captured on every over 8 flight. So, yes - when I work the same number of days (using carryover) as a 757C on reserve, I make the same (or better) money.

Ok. Just to validate everything. I did the long math. (Year 3)

940 hrs X $237 = $222,780
1040 X 181 (173+8) = $188,240
Those subtracted equals a pay difference of $39,580
$39,580 / $181 = About 218 hours
218 / 6 (best number I could use for hour of pay per day) = 36
36 / 12 months = 3 days.

So yes an extra 3 days of work (carryover) equals same pay

Can anyone tell me what a typical month 757FO or any type is for a new hire? I am currently commuting in my gig with 18days off a month, and I would be commuting to MEM if I got hired? Days off in a block? Length of trips...etc? I am trying to see what would be the biggest change in my QOL commuting from ATL.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fedex/108414-fedex-schedules.html

What this guy said:

“FedEx schedules:

Reserve Schedules at Fedex:
15 days max on Reserve in a four week month, 19 days max five week month
90% of Reserve days shall be grouped into blocks with minimum 4 R days. Other reserve lines shall have blocks with a minimum of 3 R days but those blocks can't be weekends.
Among published reserve lines, there must be a minimum of 13% R-24 reserve lines.
A reserve pilot can't be given an assignment that is SCHEDULED to terminate more than 2 hours into his day off.
If a reserve pilot has met or exceeded the Reserve Line Guarantee, the rest of his R days are dropped without pay consequences.
A reserve pilot shall not be hub turned through his base more than 4 times, during a single block of R days, without his consent.
Reserve Periods:
RA = 0000L-1200L
RB = 1200L-0000L
R24 = 0000L-2359L
Call out
RA & RB is a 1.5 hour call out (can be reduced to an hour in op emergency)
R24 is a 24 hour call out.

Of the published current 777 reserve lines (warning, this is a peak month), of the 100 or so published reserve lines, 56 or so lines are a solid block of 19 days on reserve. The rest are a mixture of two blocks (two commutes to Memphis if you don't live there) and some three blocks (three commutes) throughout the month. Believe it or not, reserve can sometimes go senior as bubbas in Memphis love getting paid to stay at home.

Of the published November 757 reserve lines, just three lines were a single block of 15 R days. Most other reserve lines were three blocks of R days with a few two blocks of R days throughout the month. When the 757 flying is removed from the 767 bidpack, it will have more reserve lines with long blocks instead of the mostly three blocks in the month - or at least that's the way it used to be when I was there.

On the 757 you have a couple different types of flying; AM hub turns (night hub turns), PM hub turns (known as day flying), AM out and backs, PM out and backs, and the shotgun or "see America" flying.

What is an AM hub turn:
Your trip generally starts Tuesday morning with a 0000L-0400L report with a single flight to your destination. There are some trips with two legs to your destination and of course those go junior unless it is BOI. You land in the morning and you crew rest all day. You then depart around 9PM and fly back to the Memphis hub. You then wait in Memphis during the evening sort. There are sleep rooms available, a cafeteria, snack bar with all you can eat/drink popcorn coffee, or if you live close by in Memphis you can make a quick stop at home or the crashpad but you're still on duty. Then around 0000L-0400L you'll fly back to your destination. Rinse repeat. That is one "hub turn." You'll do this all week until Friday night/Saturday morning. Once you land Saturday morning at your destination, you'll have a long layover there until Monday night around 9PM where you will fly back to Memphis and your trip usually ends or has one more night hub turn depending on how the scheduling committee is building trips.

A variation of the typical AM hub turn can have a deadhead on commercial airlines (DAL, AA, UAL etc.etc.) leaving Sunday morning and arriving at your destination in the evening on Sunday. You then go into crew rest. On Monday at 9PM, you fly back to Memphis starting your week of hub turns. The trip may extend over the weekend OR it may end with a deadhead on commercial airlines back to Memphis (no long layover). There seems to be no rhyme or reason why some destinations get long layovers and some which get the deadheads.

A PM hub turn is like an AM hubturn except that most of the flying is during the day (well no overnight flying). You report at Memphis around noon-3pm, fly to your destination and land in the evening, layover, and then return back to Memphis in the morning just before 10am-noon. You sit during the afternoon sort where you can go eat, workout, sleep, go home, etc.etc. but you're still on duty. Then you fly back to your destination. Rinse repeat.

AM out and backs:
You report in the early morning (0000L-0400L), fly to your destination(s), then immediately return to Memphis. No layover. Must block in at Memphis prior to 10am Central Time. Do this all week (Tuesday early morning through Friday early morning .. or 4 days).

PM out and back:
Same as the AM out and back except you depart Memphis after the afternoon sort (1400-1600L), fly to your destination(s), and then return back to Memphis for the evening sort around 10PM-0100L.

Shotgun:
These lines can have multiple departures from Memphis which would be very bad for commuters. Imagine looking at a month calendar and imagining a shotgun pattern. They consist of single day trips, several two and three day trips. They also can have lots of deadheads on commercial airliners. Great for people who live in Memphis and who want or need scheduled flexibility.

See America:
Usually these lines head out west from Memphis with long (longer than 24 hours) layovers. The cool things about these trips is that they may start with the evening sort (0000L-0400L) but they can transition to day flying on the next legs or days. For example, early morning flight to Portland, layover, spend all day and night there, then the following morning fly to LAX, layover all day and then on the following early morning fly back to Memphis and land just before the day sort (10am-noon).

That is about as best as I can tell you about 757 flying. There are also trips that hubturn our hubs in EWR, LAX, AFW, and IND.

777 flying:
Nearly all of it is long haul and our layovers are usually much longer than passenger airline long haul flying. We do have some domestic trips to IND and EWR and they may be embedded in trips with international long haul flights.

Typical 777 Trip:
Report to Memphis around 0000L-0400L and fly long haul to international destination. Block under 8 hours and it is two pilots, over 8 hours is three pilots, and over 12 is four pilots. You continue flying around the world and eventually end up back in Memphis. Trips can be long ... 10-13 days scheduled. Of the current bid pack, 20 trips were single departure (one long block trip). The rest were trips made up of two blocks (5-7 day trips) and some three blocks. The number of weeks in the month will determine trip lengths and construction.

You can also have a report after the afternoon sort (1400-1600L) and fly to Europe and land in the morning just like the passenger airlines do. There aren't many of these.(STN, CDG, CGN ... all I can think of). But these are rare and most 777 trips start in the early morning after the AM sort.

Also, as with many of the trips at FDX, many of the 777 trips start or end, or both, with commercial deadheads.

One thing I did not mention is our secondary line process and secondary lines which are lines that are constructed after the main bid is completed and people have used vacation, training, ecetera to drop trips. A secondary line can consist of all trips, all reserve, or a mixture of the two. It is our version of PBS for the left overs. Any trips that can't be built into a line for someone are then published in the Open Time listing where they are either picked up by anyone or given to reserve pilots to man them.

Confused?

Note ... Don't take everything I said as gospel, there are exceptions to everything including the exceptions. Also, I'm sure I didn't quite say something 100% accurate so please if there is something wrong, I apologize, and someone please correct me.

Cheers.”

That post was quite informative. Assuming I actually nail my interview, this is the kind of info I’m looking for as a commuter.

Slightly off topic, but...

What percentage of FedEx pilots commute?

What percentage of trips start or finish with deadheads?

How long might a commuter get stuck with a shotgun line?