This would be a terrible deal for us. If we only had one flight we could get on (and that's the case with the majority of commuters here), we would have to leave 24-36 hours prior? And for those people lucky enough to have two possible jumpseats, good luck booking the first one, because everyone would be trying for it. Not a better deal at all.

Fedex Hiring Part II
 

No, it says there needs to be a seat available for sale 36-24 hours prior or the Jumpseat at any time. Not that you have to commute that far in advance. Or you could just give yourself 2 flights. I was just answering the question of which airline has a policy of only one flight.

I’m just saying that whatever the best practice is here, why can’t that be negotiators into actual contractual language.

So what happened at brand X when you didn’t make your trip? Keep the pay or lose the pay? Because in essence the only difference between protected or unprotected is your hours either go into make up or they don’t.

.........and don't ever trust a Captain that wears one and doesn't have to.


Or a guy that blocks his calendar.

Sorry, this has NOTHING to do with the OP.

Fedex Hiring Part II
 

You lose the pay but missing the trip could never count against you (disciplinary wise) if you followed the contractual language. There was no concept of a make up bank. But there wasn’t a limit on picking up any trip in open time either other than FARs.

That’s the way it should be, that make up bank crap is ridiculous. If drop a trip so be it, however there should be no limit on picking except FAR limits.

You'd think we could just declare an operational emergency on our jumpseat and extend it to 16 hours just like that...

Hmm, that language doesn't make any sense. Why would it be helpful to the company in any way if there was a flight available 24-36 hours prior to the jumpseat that you were going to take? By the time you get on your jumpseat, that flight's long gone. Sounds like the company didn't look at the contract language very closely.

There's a lot of best practice language that we need to get into the contract. Thought we were going to do it last time.:(

Quick question folks.

I’ve read around here that management cannot force you to a foreign domicile as a new hire, is this true?

In the application itself you’re asked if you would be interested in relocating to CGN or HKG, would answering “No” hurt your chances of getting an interview?

How long are the Foreign Domicile stints?

Thanks.

Unless he's bald. Some guys seem to want to cover it up, but who cares? Not us.:eek:

Blocking your calendar is creepy. I've heard all sorts of excuses for it, but yeah....

Fedex Hiring Part II
 

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear in explaining it. What it says is that you can only plan on a particular flight if that flight, 36 hours before departure, has a flight available for sale to the public or a Jumpseat available. Meaning, you can’t plan to use a flight that is sold out (no seats available for sale to the public). If that was the case, you would need to find another flight that meets that criteria in order to not be disciplined if you don’t make it when actually attempting to commute on it.

Got it, makes more sense now.

PTB,

You continually assert that we have a restriction on commuting into long-haul flights that is both enforced by management and codified in our CBA. These are not factual statements. Any pilot here has the option to make that choice if they want. I don’t claim the intimate knowledge that you do regarding this “removal event” everyone has heard of. I heard it involved some military duty which when combined with the commute and pending international flight gave a management pilot who was made aware some pause for concern. Whatever the details, unless that pilot and this other senior jumpseater who were removed from their trips want to come on PFC and share their details firsthand, I think we’re all shooting in the dark. Even if you have the specifics accurate, what I do know is this event occurred during the tenure of JG as 777 Fleet captain (or whatever we called that position at the time). I’m pretty sure he was the person who made the decision to remove this pilot. Perhaps the non-probationary pilot just got caught in the frag pattern and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It wouldn’t be the first time someone in a position of authority over-stepped their mandate. But, the bottom line is that this occurred years ago, JG is retired and I don’t think it’s valid to conclude that this one isolated event means we are all subject to the restrictions you claim.

The CBA language you quote to support your claim does not. It certainly doesn’t prohibit a pilot from scheduling a jumpseat that doesn’t comply with 26.J.2. The whole purpose of it is to give each pilot specifics on how to commute to work while receiving protection in the case of a failed commute. It’s not written to imply some kind of restriction applies to those pilots who either choose not to meet the criteria or can’t because of their commute situation. They just don’t get the benefit of the protection. The authors of that section were attempting to create a set of criteria that would allow as many of our pilots as possible to commute protected while satisfying the company’s desire to protect the operation. That’s it. As far as the 13:30 duty day restriction – that seems to match the operational (not scheduled) domestic duty restriction currently in our CBA. It also matches what most domestic hub-turn pilots are going to do the night following their commute anyway. They’re going to show an hour prior to a flight inbound to MEM, fly in, sit the sort and fly out to a layover. Why wouldn’t management agree to a commute plan/duty day that effectively matches what each pilot is limited to on any given night of hub-turning.

Your discussion of numbers of reserves vs trips may provide some rationale for a new, separate long-haul commuter policy we could negotiate but beyond that it really has nothing to do with reality. The simple fact is that given our flight schedule, very few of our long-haul commuters would be able to meet the requirements set out in the commuter policies of the major airlines. So, it makes no sense to say they we should be able to do what they do. Many of their long-haul pilots face the same limited options that many of our pilots have and as a result are not able to commute into their trips with commuter protection either.

There’s a very important distinction between the commuter policies at major airlines and the one in place at FedEx. Our policy was written to allow almost every pilot commuting to almost any domestic trip on our own aircraft to do that protected. Pax guys typically need a flight and one or two back-ups but that policy in no way guarantees them access to every trip in their domestic bid-pack. Our policy also allows pilots to commute to just about any domestic trip they can hold. Do you ever hear one of our domestic pilots talk about whether a trip is “commutable” or not? I haven’t. That can be a pretty significant distinction for pax pilots, both long and short haul types. Many pax commuters with seniority choose to avoid half their bidpack lines because they can’t get there the same day. Those who can’t avoid them have to commute in the day before. Same thing on the back end of trips that don’t give them a chance to get home that same day and would require an extra night in domicile.

Regarding your continuing claim that long-haul airline pilots enjoy a much more liberal approach to their commute, I have to wave the BS flag because you’re really talking apples and oranges. You’re cherry picking one commute scenario and making what I believe is a very broad and incorrect assumption that it applies to “95%” of pax long-haul pilots. To then extrapolate that assumption to every long-haul pilot at FedEx is equally incorrect. We don’t have access to the same flight schedules many of those pax pilots do. Our flights leave at completely different time blocks than their flights and the commuter flight options for a large number of our pilots are just not as numerous.

I don’t think you’ve bothered to actually consider various commute scenarios for all these “lucky” long-haul pax guys who can commute into their trips with protection. Maybe you’ve got some pals at other airlines who’ve found a niche that works great for them based on where they live and their seniority. But, not every long-haul pilot at those airlines have such picture-perfect commute. Certainly not 95%. I just deadheaded out of ORD on an AA flight to PVG that left at 10:30. My next one goes to NRT at 13:00. Can a Denver based AA pilot commute into those flights? Not the PVG flight. None of the AA or UAL flight gets him from DEN to ORD in time. So, he has no choice but to come in the night before. How about the later NRT flight? Probably – since he’s got one primary on his own metal and a UAL backup. What if he lives in SEA? Then he can’t get to either one. How about those AA pilots who choose to live in a smaller community like Norfolk, VA (very popular with quite a few FedEx pilots). Again, unable to make the PVG flight with a same day commute. The NRT flight? Maybe but he’s not on his own metal, using an offline A319 as his primary and an RJ for a backup that arrives with 4 minutes to spare prior to check-in time. Would that pass the sniff test for the Chief pilot if the pilot misses his trip? I can’t say for sure, but I kind of doubt it. I don’t think I would care to do that for every trip and I seriously doubt a Norfolk resident AA pilot would either.

Y’all should start a jumpseat thread!

CGN for f/o is staffed at 100 percent off of the last system bid.
That means there are no slots until someone comes up on their 5 year mark.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

There is no FAR requirement for any kind of sleep/rest facility on an aircraft scheduled for over 8 and less than 12. JetBlue let their RFOs lay on the floor in the back of their A320s. Other major airlines just took a business class seat (long before the days of lay flat) or a row of three coach seats and offered them up as a way for the additional crew member to grab a nap. None of those options are a perfect solution but the bottom line is that the FARs require nothing so anything these companies do is gravy.

Am I understanding this correctly??? On reserve you can drop reserve days and pick up trips? You can actually modify your schedule and go flying instead of sitting on reserve?

Yes that’s true

Not that it applies to us, but FAR 117 now requires certain types of rest areas for augmented crew in order to have lengthier duty periods.

Respectfully the FARs are minimum requirements. They are often not reflective of industry best practices or the highest standard of safety. (i wouldn't consider those gravy)

"Just because it is legal doesn't make it safe"

You're correct 'none of those options are a perfect solution", but they are all a far sight better than the "solution" we currently use. I think PTB and many others are approaching this from a best practices stand point and not this is what the regulator requires.

FEDEX does apply this to many areas where a value addition can be found. An example is the creation of the landing safety improvment team on for the MD-11 and the subsequently implemented PMR program.

I think this is an important point for those considering joining this company. If someone can make a case and it will improve performance, efficiency, or safety even if it involves spending money FEDEX will do it. I haven't been here that long, but there are dozens of examples of this that I can cite without references. I have never once felt that this company doesn't care about this crew force to spend money if it makes sense.

What I have seen is a crew force often times unwilling to show the intestinal fortitude required to demand change, but that's another issue.

It depends on staffing levels, but yes, it is possible to do this. You generally only have success dropping reserve days within about a week of those reserve days, so it's not a strategy you can currently count on to get a solid schedule.

Can they also create a set criteria that would allow as many of our pilots as possible (even if only 20% for example) to commute protected while satisfying the company’s desire to protect the operation as well?

Why is this assumption always made that the commute has to be on a Fedex flight? Not all other airlines limit their pilots protected commutes on their own flights.


Again, another assumption. A commuter policy doesn’t need to be written so as to protect almost every pilot commuting into almost any trip. Like you said, the passenger airlines’ commuting policies don’t have that. So why restrict ourselves to that higher standard. If we had a policy that gave commuter protection to 20% of the trips, it would be a win win. It sounds to me like you are letting the perfect to get in the way of the good.

Another assumption. Yes, we do have access to all Jumpseats on all those passenger airlines.



If we can come up with a commute policy that incrementally adds commute protection to more pilots willing and able to use it, why wouldn’t we?


It just doesn’t make sense to me why we would assume so many things in an argument against something that would help more of our pilots. What is the company’s idea of a best-practice commute for an international trip? Just codifying that into contract language would be better than what we have now, which is nothing. If it helps one pilot make a less stressful commute, it would be an improvement.

Talk to your block rep. That is a limit we impose on the company not the other way around. I am sure the company would love to shrink 400 pilots off of their hiring plans. Careful what you wish for.

Why do you think the company would shrink 400 pilots off their hiring plan? I heard that excuse before but it makes no sense because more than half of the crew force have hundreds of hours of makeup and don’t even burn it. That’s a very poor excuse.

All it takes is for a third of the pilots to add 18 extra hours every month and the need for 400 pilots is gone. The price of Memphis real estate would sky rocket as people moved to town to fly O&Bs 24 days a month.

I understand your point, however more than half the crew force us capable of flying more that 50 extra hours every month and I don’t see them doing it.

I've flown with more than 1 pilot who was trading up his BLG 12 and going Neg 6 in the makeup bank every month, sad to say at least one individual started blocking his calendar after I pointed out doing so was counter-productive since we were a year + into negotiations.

If there was No limit other than FARs, think quite a few folks would try and work a bit more than they do now. Why wouldn't they try to add more days away from home if they have weekend layovers at home, or even layovers during the week

Do I think it would be 400, no, but you never know. I think a lot of people appreciated the elimination of the 48 hour blackout in CBA 06, but the impact was a reduced use of Reserve pilots for those using SL, reduced hiring, and a greater reliance on bringing R24 pilots into Memphis for HSBY just in case

Yes, I can see FedEx signing off on a reliance of JS on other carriers.
You can really see their willingness to give up control by the way they've expanded the JS CBA Protection to All Types of JumpSeats...not just for those folks using Staging but for those of us on Business or Personal...oh wait...they didn't do that did they?

Other Airlines Long-haul trips...are they 70+ CH trips around the world too? Or do they just do something like JFK-CDG-JFK then off for a couple of days, rinse repeat?

I concede half the pilots prefer QOL over money. I have a couple hundred hours of makeup myself. That leaves the other half. Changing that rule would change the way the company handles reserves and how many lines they publish. Much like they did when we changed the bid for training rules and cut the number of VTO trips significantly in 2006.

What happens when they Cancel a trip 3 weeks out? Yes, that happens. Just had that happen to one of the buds on the MD.

What happens when they cancel your trip by changing the Airplane type before the Month even happens. Yes, that happens. Had one bud who is a Bus Capt have his M-W-F trips get subbed out due to an equipment change before Open Time was even available.

And Again, Getting paid trip Guarantee and Going Home is one of the options, all it takes is a 4 hour investment.

But, let's Say FedEx eliminates the Whole SUB thing...what happens to Overage Calculations?
Most of the Time I've gone into SUB when my plane breaks. Or I get rerouted somewhere, once CRS starts revising the pairing sometimes the Fun just never stops. Most lucrative week I've had CH wise at FedEx was after my Monday flight was rerouted into Indy, and then CRS get revising\extending my pairing. Wound up adding 4 HSBY periods (only 1 of which we got disruption for because only 1 of them occurred in a scheduled duty period). Wound up with 4 Extra Duty periods. Because I declined SUB, turning my Tues-Friday into Time Free From duty, I accrued overage at 150% and then 200%. Flew a total of 2 legs for almost a Month's worth of Credit hours.

Now, I could've stayed eligible for SUB...know FedEx couldn't use me. Pretty sure still get the Extra duty periods, but it was pretty nice knowing every day they extended past Wednesday paid at 200%.

If that’s the case, why aren’t more than 50% of the crew force who have hundred of make up time using it?

Ok I got you, so changing the rules doesn’t necessarily mean guys will fly more, however the company will expect them to fly more hence everything changes.

If you were actually a FedEx pilot, instead of just pretending to be one, none of this would have to be explained to you.

And for the rest of us here, this is some pretty ridiculous thread drift for a thread titled, "FedEx Hiring Part II".

You’re entitled to you opinion and I’m entitled to mine. By understand his point doesn’t mean I agree with it, because like I’ve said, more than 50% of the crew force have hundreds of hours in their MakeUp bank and I don’t see them picking opening at a rate which causes management to hire less pilot.

As for me being a FedEx pilot, I guess you really think that you’re that great because you’re a FedEx pilot and I’m not capable of such greatness? Well if that make you sleep good at night, sweet dreams.

Let’s please stay on thread, way off the rails. Please.

Yes, IF there are enough other people sitting reserves on the days you are supposed to sit reserves. Some seats or airplanes won't allow this because the manning isn't right.

Fedex Hiring Part II
 

These are just more assumptions. That was the biggest point I made at the end of my post. Why do we keep making assumptions in order to argue against ourselves on something that can benefit some of us? You are the one who brought up the passenger airlines. I was just pointing out that they have commuter protections that don’t make distinctions between domestic, international, long haul, etc, including longer trips as well. And they do it while letting pilots use off line jumpseats also. Another assumption, is the inability to join a trip mid trip. That’s also standard at some other airlines’ commuter policies.

But even if Fdx wouldn’t sign off on allowing off line jumpseats, why not allow protection of using a FDX Jumpseat for all trips, including reserve? Like I said, just having something they consider as best practice being codified into contractual language would be better than what we have now, which is nothing. If it helps ONE pilot, it would be a win win.

Instead of arguing why FDX MIGHT not go for something, let’s advocate for what they can do?

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

My ego is irrelevant. But pretending that you are a FedEx pilot by regurgitating things others have said to appear knowledgeable is misleading.

To get back on track with the reserve question, there are many people that ditch as much of their reserve as they can and pick up trips instead. I see some of the very bottom guys only flying trips. However, people can't always do it, especially during peak. We seem to be adequately staffed right now, in many seats.

A lot of Memphis folks bid reserve and don’t want to fly, while others commuting in to MEM for reserve days want to fly to avoid sitting in a crashpad for long durations. A lot of times they’ll get their trips. Like someone already said though it’s seat/month dependent. I know of one 757 mem F/O (commuter, very junior) who was on rsv most of 2017 and averaged only 3-4 nights per month in Memphis.