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Old 04-27-2018, 04:25 AM   #41  
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Originally Posted by PW305 View Post
You have to admit, sub is ridiculous. They cancel a trip on you and youíre happy you can make it up at 125% later? Should be paid trip guarantee and go home...
That will never happen.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:36 AM   #42  
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I can't find that rule anywhere in the CBA or the FOM. Could you provide the section in the FOM or CBA that states this rule?
It's not. Not a restriction. Not an issue. There's no jumpseat police looking to bump people off trips. I'm pretty sure you know that but I'm replying to your post out of convenience. PTB has drawn some conclusions that aren't based in any factual information.

However, if one misses an interrnational trip because they were using a single FX jumpseat to get to work, I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy from their fleet Captain.

Unless someone lives in a city with multiple FX flights inbound to their domicile that would allow a prudent commute plan with back-ups, using a single FX flight from their home airport is pretty foolish. Expecting management to embrace that plan is equally foolish. A chief pilot at one of those airlines PTB mentions with 95% of their pilots commuting into international trips would agree. Those pax pilots commuting into their trips are expected to follow their company's commuter policy which is going to require AT LEAST one back-up flight, maybe more.

We're fortunate that our commuter policy allows a single FX flight to serve as our one and only way to get to domicile for a trip provided it meets the CBA criteria. Apparently some of our pilots who may have gotten used to that situation flying domestic have come to the mistaken conclusion that such a commute plan should be okay for international ops as well. Trying to use a single flight with no back-ups to commute to an international flight is not a valid plan at FedEx or any other airline. But, there's nothing stopping anyone here from doing it if they are willing to run that risk.
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:08 AM   #43  
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It's not. Not a restriction. Not an issue. There's no jumpseat police looking to bump people off trips. I'm pretty sure you know that but I'm replying to your post out of convenience. PTB has drawn some conclusions that aren't based in any factual information.

However, if one misses an interrnational trip because they were using a single FX jumpseat to get to work, I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy from their fleet Captain.

Unless someone lives in a city with multiple FX flights inbound to their domicile that would allow a prudent commute plan with back-ups, using a single FX flight from their home airport is pretty foolish. Expecting management to embrace that plan is equally foolish. A chief pilot at one of those airlines PTB mentions with 95% of their pilots commuting into international trips would agree. Those pax pilots commuting into their trips are expected to follow their company's commuter policy which is going to require AT LEAST one back-up flight, maybe more.

We're fortunate that our commuter policy allows a single FX flight to serve as our one and only way to get to domicile for a trip provided it meets the CBA criteria. Apparently some of our pilots who may have gotten used to that situation flying domestic have come to the mistaken conclusion that such a commute plan should be okay for international ops as well. Trying to use a single flight with no back-ups to commute to an international flight is not a valid plan at FedEx or any other airline. But, there's nothing stopping anyone here from doing it if they are willing to run that risk.
Completely accurate.

UA
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:08 AM   #44  
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Yeah, it can be done, but your VLT pay of $55K requires 33-35 days of extra work in the year. Also, $10K in training and OTR? I have no idea what OTR is, but training pay for 5 days a year is less than $4K.

So yeah, work your regular schedule and add an average of 3 days a month onto that and hope that you can get it at draft. Sounds easy.
Pin you're assumptions are a out of phase with my reality.

One of the best things about Fedex is we have the opportunity to fly very low block hours for lots of Pay. Example 6.5 hrs block 65 hrs Crd. Those are high value trips that might look like 7 or 8 days, but if you plan it properly it might work out to 4-5. So your assumption about extra days is not accurate at all. In fact the total days away from home can be significantly lower than a standard line.

The numbers I'm quoting are from the paycheck stub.

XTRA pairings and CHTR beat anything in the bid pack everyday and twice on Sundays.

I've flown for other airlines and I'm saying my experience Here is not what I'd be doing at Delta or any other Major. I know it may seem unbelievable, but its there. Hell sometimes I'm like daayuum!!!

I mean all the scheduling tools: the AVA drop it down the hole conflict carry in Triple double over unders etc. It just depends on how deep you want to go with it all.

A lot of guys aren't interested in doing what it takes to either learn or leverage these advantages. That's not easy but the payout is more $$$ for less work.

And I like money!!!
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:43 AM   #45  
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Pin you're assumptions are a out of phase with my reality.

One of the best things about Fedex is we have the opportunity to fly very low block hours for lots of Pay. Example 6.5 hrs block 65 hrs Crd. Those are high value trips that might look like 7 or 8 days, but if you plan it properly it might work out to 4-5. So your assumption about extra days is not accurate at all. In fact the total days away from home can be significantly lower than a standard line.

The numbers I'm quoting are from the paycheck stub.

XTRA pairings and CHTR beat anything in the bid pack everyday and twice on Sundays.

I've flown for other airlines and I'm saying my experience Here is not what I'd be doing at Delta or any other Major. I know it may seem unbelievable, but its there. Hell sometimes I'm like daayuum!!!

I mean all the scheduling tools: the AVA drop it down the hole conflict carry in Triple double over unders etc. It just depends on how deep you want to go with it all.

A lot of guys aren't interested in doing what it takes to either learn or leverage these advantages. That's not easy but the payout is more $$$ for less work.

And I like money!!!

Shaman,

My assumptions are that your assertions that it is easy for a 2nd year MD FO to make over $250K and be home more than a regular line holder are unrealistic.

If you protect min days off for the whole year, you have no more than 196 days on your calendar. Take out 15 days for vacation, and you should have no more than 181 days on your calendar. (8*15 and 4*19).

Now a second year FO in 2017 made just under $168/hr for 10 of the 12 months. The last two months, they made just under $173/hr. So, let's just say $170/hr for the year. If you made $170K for BLG, that is 1000 hours. VLT would pay $255/hr. If you made $55K at that rate, that would be 215 credit hours. 1000+215 is 1215 credit hours for the year, not counting days of training and OTR.

Trip rig pays 6.4 credit hours for every 24 hour away from base. 1215/6.4 comes to 190 days away from base. Add in 5 days for training, and you are scheduled for a minimum of 195 days.

That doesn't even account for trips that start or end on a half day, which if you are deadheading a lot, would come into play. My guess is that you have several months where you have less than min days off on your calendar. Now, I know you can be home for more days than the scheduled, I was on the MD for 10 years, but it is not as easy or as prevalent as you make it out to be.

Again, great for you that you have been able to make a schedule that you are happy with, but there is no way that the average 2nd year MD FO can be at home more than a line holder and make over $250K. Not saying some can't, but definitely not the norm. In my ten years on the MD, I never came close to $250K, and had a higher hourly rate than yours. But if I got home early, I didn't pick up extra, I took the time off.

I like spending time with the family over money!!
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:38 AM   #46  
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Shaman,

My assumptions are that your assertions that it is easy for a 2nd year MD FO to make over $250K and be home more than a regular line holder are unrealistic.

If you protect min days off for the whole year, you have no more than 196 days on your calendar. Take out 15 days for vacation, and you should have no more than 181 days on your calendar. (8*15 and 4*19).

Now a second year FO in 2017 made just under $168/hr for 10 of the 12 months. The last two months, they made just under $173/hr. So, let's just say $170/hr for the year. If you made $170K for BLG, that is 1000 hours. VLT would pay $255/hr. If you made $55K at that rate, that would be 215 credit hours. 1000+215 is 1215 credit hours for the year, not counting days of training and OTR.

Trip rig pays 6.4 credit hours for every 24 hour away from base. 1215/6.4 comes to 190 days away from base. Add in 5 days for training, and you are scheduled for a minimum of 195 days.

That doesn't even account for trips that start or end on a half day, which if you are deadheading a lot, would come into play. My guess is that you have several months where you have less than min days off on your calendar. Now, I know you can be home for more days than the scheduled, I was on the MD for 10 years, but it is not as easy or as prevalent as you make it out to be.

Again, great for you that you have been able to make a schedule that you are happy with, but there is no way that the average 2nd year MD FO can be at home more than a line holder and make over $250K. Not saying some can't, but definitely not the norm. In my ten years on the MD, I never came close to $250K, and had a higher hourly rate than yours. But if I got home early, I didn't pick up extra, I took the time off.

I like spending time with the family over money!!
I absolutely believe Shaman. Iíve done what he says and I know many others have too. Iíve had international revisions that have paid an extra $10,000 plus and still been home only 12 hours after originally scheduled. Sometimes magic happens with these revisions with extra landings, Duty periods, 200%, etc. Iíve had calendar months with 28 days of blue bar and only been away from home 12 days. Iíve dropped my entire schedule to do some work at home and had unbelievable charters pop up. I once got paid over 60 CH on a charter and was away from my front door about 32 hours! (And Iím a commuter.) MD-11 international/charter and 777 internationalóthatís where the $$ for less work are in the CBA.

But, youíre correct. Do nothing but reserve or domestic and just fly your line with some trip trades, and youíll not see these numbers.
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:52 AM   #47  
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I absolutely believe Shaman. I’ve done what he says and I know many others have too. I’ve had international revisions that have paid an extra $10,000 plus and still been home only 12 hours after originally scheduled. Sometimes magic happens with these revisions with extra landings, Duty periods, 200%, etc. I’ve had calendar months with 28 days of blue bar and only been away from home 12 days. I’ve dropped my entire schedule to do some work at home and had unbelievable charters pop up. I once got paid over 60 CH on a charter and was away from my front door about 32 hours! (And I’m a commuter.) MD-11 international/charter and 777 international—that’s where the $$ for less work are in the CBA.

But, you’re correct. Do nothing but reserve or domestic and just fly your line with some trip trades, and you’ll not see these numbers.
Not saying that I don't believe him, just that it is not average. I flew the MD internationally for ten years, never did reserve, and had some good deals. I just never picked up any extra after those good deals. Considering that now the MD bid pack only has about 10% of the flying as international, these examples aren't what the average 2nd year FO can expect.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:18 AM   #48  
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It's a song from a movie Boats and Hos. Go rent Stepbrothers and you'll see. This is also an anonymous forum for the most part so I don't think that unless we are all going to start using real names that it really matters. Thanks though.


Anonymous forum? [emoji23]


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Old 04-27-2018, 11:20 AM   #49  
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Not saying that I don't believe him, just that it is not average. I flew the MD internationally for ten years, never did reserve, and had some good deals. I just never picked up any extra after those good deals. Considering that now the MD bid pack only has about 10% of the flying as international, these examples aren't what the average 2nd year FO can expect.
I'm not trying to say this is what's typical I'm saying its what's possible. With the overall point being that there's some remarkable opportunities at FEDEX that make this place very unique.

If you've been off the airplane for a while and are really only aware of what's in the bid pack I can totally understand your point of view, but trust me there are guys who haven't been off IOE for two months grabbing these opportunities.

And I know its hard to believe, but it is neither seniority dependent nor bid pack driven. These things are all subject to change, but the current reality is that guys are crushing it. Newhire guys.


To those considering coming to work here understand that this place lends itself very well to finding your niche and leveraging it to the Max. The turnover here is high which means the opportunities to move up and settle in are there. It ain't perfect, but I'll testify!!
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:16 PM   #50  
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That will never happen.
Honest question...Why do you think that will that never happen?

In my opinion there is too much of the "this is the way it has always been/what are you willing to give up" group who continue to allow the big shiny things to persuade them and leave status quo just that. It is a trend here that guys are happy taking their measly 3% and letting the work rules go down the tube. A majority of our work rules, or lack thereof, show that. Sub, reserve, duty day length during the critical period etc etc etc.... Here is a novel concept, lets negotiate pay raises AND work rule improvements! ::gasp::
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