kronan

The idea of this as a Hard Sell just kills me.

1st there weren't enough FOCUS meetings, so they added FOCUS meetings. Then there weren't enough Slots, so they added Slots. Then it was Too Hard to get to Memphis, if only we could use the Model at home...so they turned on the ability to run projections at home. Then the Model was like something put together like a kindergartener, and why the legalese.

Well, Put together your OWN model. Feel Free to build your own, maybe use FASMX as your baseline.

As to the Past Peformance and Proprietary language, there's not a single financial tool out there that Doesn't include virtually the same language. And somewhere in the legalese is the Past Performance doesn't Guarantee Future outcomes, but I know which way to bet the returns will be over the next 25 years

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mu...tion/316069103

kronan

Thus far there has been Exactly ONE person who's said he was worse off as compared to our current A plan, and that was because he drops 2'sh days of work each month for QOL reasons.

There's been several, including the occasionally much maligned Albie who've said the returns are minimal 2-10k a year and they'd prefer to avoid the potential uncertainty.
Boggles the mind, a yet to be negotiated 2% floor that would return an Extra 10k a year just isn't enough to change plans. But that's fine, don't understand the logic, but no worries

busdriver12

I have not yet seen a single thing that has addressed pilots on LTD. Perhaps I missed it somewhere. Oh yeah, it's, "to be negotiated". At least on LTD now, you are accruing longevity. Hmm, why do I not trust that this will be a priority to negotiate? Being forced to go onto LTD can happen to anyone, no matter their current health. Nothing like losing much of your salary, and your retirement, too.

FlyBoyd

As always we are playing checkers while the company plays chess.

Even if they don’t like the VBP proposal, the company will at least feign interest so we keep spending money chasing it. When we are negotiating contract 202x we will have less money and that will put the MECs feet to the fire to get a substandard deal sold before we run out of money like in 2015.....

FedEx ALPA MEC - “King Me”
Company - “Sure, here you go. I’ll trade this pawn for a queen.”
FedEx ALPA MEC - “Wait....what?”

StarClipper

Are you talking about the same Albie who was a huge advocate of TA 2015? The same Albie who wrote that long letter explaining who great the TA is? Albie served his country well, run a great business and I’ll continue to send guys his way, however his opinion on a lot of things pertaining to the contract differs from 43%

Do the math, 10K per year is $833 per month before Uncle Sam takes his fair share. After taxes you may get about $500 per month or $250 per pay period. Is that worth the risk involved?

jetstar1

What was the margin of error in the model where we enter our own numbers? ALPA nationals endorsement just tells me that this is a pattern bargaining tool. This VB plan is wonderful for pilots that don’t have an A plan. If this plan is so great for FedEx, why isn’t management beating down the doors to negotiate? I ran my numbers and it did show a slight increase. I just don’t think it’s worth assuming the risk for a small amount of money. Plus this plan incentives working longer to increase the payout. So if you have less years in retirement, doesn’t that negate a slight increase to your annual payout? By deferring A fund payout by one year you get an increased annual benefit. I would think that would further narrow any gain that would be achieved by the VB plan. Plus every pilot that already has the high 5 has nothing to lose. Another fine example of “ I’ve got mine”.

I appreciate the fact that ALPA is trying to come up with a solution to retirement, but this is not it.

LunkerHunter

This!!!^^^^^

Miso

I am concerned that this forum is an echo chamber, and we’re making valid points, but it simply doesn’t reach the majority of the the crew force.

We repeat our concerns and specific reservations about the VB plan and all the potential pitfalls associated with it, but in general most pilots are listening to the Union “road show,” just like in the last Contract.

The senior guys with a “high five” are once again rewarded, which is effectively buying their vote. While the younger pilots are enticed with the potential for huge payouts decades in the future, once again dividing us one against another.

However all of this is hypothetical...There is NO agreement, the Union is spending our funds (dues) to sell a plan that doesn’t exist...None of this is agreed on, so the outcome of any modeling is moot. What are the chances that The Company will agree to any of this unless it benefits them at a significant level?

Instead of talking to ourselves in this “echo chamber” we should be actively speaking with our fellow pilots on every flight about the potential pitfalls and unnecessary risks associated with the VB plan versus what is ostensibly a certainty...a pension.

Do you really want to put your long term retirement assests in the hands of those who can’t negotiate something as simple as “lie flat” seat language?

pinseeker

Focus meetings were just a more intense sales jobs and didn't really answer any hard questions. It reminded me more of a time share presentation.

The modeler that has been sent out is full of assumptions that haven't been negotiated, yet we can only adjust our income, retirement age, and how positive of a return we can get on our money. What happens if the market drops 30%+ the year you retire? How hard would it have been to allow that option? Why can't we adjust the other yet to be negotiated variables such as the hurdle rate or the floor accrual rate? The numbers are easy to manipulate when you control the majority of the influencing variables.

Nightflyer

I'll answer, but I think you already know the answer.

They did it that way to give the most positive outcomes for the most number of pilots.

The negative outcomes are being swept under the carpet.

If this thing passes, and people start getting negative outcomes, what will the union say then?

They will say the predictive program was written before the negotiations were complete.

Kind of like the new VTO program, eh?

Sounds like, "we have to pass the contract, so we can see what's in it"?

How scary is that?

Too scary for my retirement!!!