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Old 07-05-2018, 05:03 PM   #31  
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Originally Posted by KrustyF15 View Post
I did not know that the company had to offer positions to folks if they gave them to new hires... is that accurate? I have buds who want to go to the triple - or another wide body - but are stuck on the 757 and haven’t been paid jack... one of this things you have to claim before they’ll give it to you?
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Originally Posted by mikecweb View Post
There’s no seat lock for narrow to wide.

Good catch. You're correct.


As for the folks on the 757 wanting to go to the 777 while junior people get hired and put onto the 777, I think your answer is in 24.F.6.



The language is confusing for me. But I think they are entitled to Junior New Hire Compensation Pay.



They need to contact ALPA.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:39 PM   #32  
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
You don't know what you don't know.

How is SDP a huge giveback? When you are on SDP, you get paid at your current seat rate plus the SDP. POP paid everything at the future higher paying seat rate to include vacation buyback, 401k contributions, continual training pay, office work, or draft/overages. With the new system, all of those extra pay provisions are paid at the current or lower seat rate. This is a biggie.

For those of us who were stuck for years on the 757 waiting to upgrade (because of the lack of sims, FAA type rating issue, and combining/separating the bid packs etc.etc.), we made a lot more money than what we would have on SDP.

On my last year on the 757, I made more money than some of the Captains I flew with (getting draft, selling vacation, being bought off my trip for training/ITU). I easily made a high five. A friend made $335,000!!! I calculated that had I been on SDP, I would have lost at least $45,000. And that doesn't count the difference in 401k contributions. Not many people can claim high fives while being on the lowest paying seat in the company. I can. Yes, SDP is a huge giveback.

Myth ... we get to pick when we want to go to training and we can plan vacation around it. News alert: NO YOU CAN'T. All you know is that you are X out of Y people given the same award. Your seniority compared to the others is Z%. You can't possibly predict what the people above you are going to bid. But remember ...

You are still at the company's discretion when you'll go to training. You are BIDDING on training. That isn't a guarantee. Just because you are senior to a bunch of people with the same award, that does not guarantee you will go to ITU when you want.

In my real world example, the pilots beneath you may be stuck in a undermanned seat and the company needs you to go first. So they slot denial them and inverse assign you. Determining when you'll go to training is a crap shoot especially if you aren't the very senior bubbas at the top. At least with the training letter there was a plan. Yeah it moved, was unpredictable, but it was a plan. Now we have no plan, just guesses.

We also didn't get small bids which is what we wanted. We still have these large system bids which take a year or more to train. What many of us thought we were getting was a system like what other airlines have where the company posts monthly what ITU slots are available. There is no "award" bid. Should you be senior enough to win a bid to train for the following month, you convert and start training the next month. It effectively combines our award and training bid processes into one simple step. If you have important life events next month, don't bid to go to ITU next month. Simple.

So, in the end, we lost POP which made a lot of people rich. We still have big bids which take a year or more to train. And in my opinion, you have LESS control over when you go to training unless you are the super senior.

Since we lost POP, instructors or LCAs who were awarded a higher paying seat now get SDP for 24 months (it's called CIPPA actually). After 24 months, the contract language dictates that you SHALL be released from training/LCA and enter the ITU bidding process. No word yet on how that is going to affect training staffing .. but nonetheless, a huge giveback. I think the company did this to help get what they really want, professional instructors and return all of us back to the line.
Thanks, fat boy. This was all pointed out during the TA, but the “yes” folks for whatever reason didn’t listen or fully understand the argument. it’s exhausting trying to explain what we lost in this contract. i give up. in starting this thread i was looking for insights from those who have gone down this road, and really not for the defenders of this contract to tell me how wonderful this is. it’s not wonderful. wake up.
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