At least we don't have PBS! Oh wait, we do.
02-11-2019, 11:30 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by FXDX
Yes I stand corrected. I meant to say that 37.7% of the 75 CA and 33.7% of the 75 FO lines are either secondary or reserve, which is even worse than secondary (for most people).
The point is that only 62.3% and 66.3% respectively are regular line holders. I doubt very seriously if anybody in the NC or the pilot group who voted for this contract figured those numbers would have turned out this way.
I point this out to demonstrate the absolute inability of this union to negotiate language that the company can't find a way around to its advantage. There is no way we we can negotiate a conversion to the variable pension scheme without suffering similar disadvantages after the ink is dry.
The point is that only 62.3% and 66.3% respectively are regular line holders. I doubt very seriously if anybody in the NC or the pilot group who voted for this contract figured those numbers would have turned out this way.
I point this out to demonstrate the absolute inability of this union to negotiate language that the company can't find a way around to its advantage. There is no way we we can negotiate a conversion to the variable pension scheme without suffering similar disadvantages after the ink is dry.
Don't even have to go back that far to check and see, 2018 was still under the old system.
2018 Flying was 72.2% & 70.9% (Capt and FO Respectively)
2017 was 65.7% & 65.2%
2016 (watermark currently obscuring the SIG Archives values so TBD)
2015 was 69.4% & 59.7%
2014 was 61.2% & 65.9%
2013 was 64.7% & 66.7%
Might be just me, and this is speaking as a YES voter, but 62.3% & 66.3% don't seem statistically out of whack.
But, by all means. Next CBA let's revert to 100% known R days in the bidpacks in exchange for returning to allowing Involuntary Reserve Line conversions...they were a rare breed anyways.
Other thing I think we need to do is free up CRS ability instead of tying their hands to the R day blocks that are conflicted. Instead of restricting them to the existing RSV or RB blocks, for say the bottom 25% of VTO lines, they should be free to create R days as needed.
That freedom is especially needed in our small domiciles.
Restricting CRS ability in 2015 has definitely had unanticipated consequences for our smaller bases QOL under the VTO system.
02-11-2019, 11:32 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
It used to be 20% or less - hence the old gouge that one could be a lineholder if they bid equipment at 80% or better.
Practically though, there is a significant percentage of folks who live in Memphis and bid reserve in hopes of NOT flying and accomplishing Draft or Makeup on their days off.
02-11-2019, 11:36 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by DR K
Alternative to our Secondary (PBS) bidding system 75CA example - take all open trips after 1st round bidding that were dropped due to MIL, VAC, CIC, etc, and create 78 actual secondary lines. These lines can have minimum requirements (restrictions on reserve days per line or any other beneficial limitations or minimums FOR US). With all of the open time typically available, international lines can be created (or out and back lines, or hub turns, or RSV, or whatever) Then, after publishing these ACTUAL lines, we can have an ACTUAL seniority based secondary bid that is open and transparent.
If there are still a few uncovered trips, they will be most likely be snapped up by PNP or MKU or whatever who cares they'll be covered..
No more SLG shafting.
No cuts, no butts, no coconuts.
Tell me I'm wrong. DR K
If there are still a few uncovered trips, they will be most likely be snapped up by PNP or MKU or whatever who cares they'll be covered..
No more SLG shafting.
No cuts, no butts, no coconuts.
Tell me I'm wrong. DR K
What if I am the #1 VTO guy and I want trips from your hypothetical created VTO bidpack Lines 1, 4, 7, 16 and 30.
But instead of getting to Cherry Pick trips and control my destiny, as the #1 guy, instead I'm limited to what someone else has created.
02-11-2019, 12:14 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 95
Kronan, respectfully, I am not wrong. And caveat this, I was not here before the last contract so I don't know if we operated how I'm suggesting then or not...
Short answer - As we speak, you're probably not getting all 5 of those trips as the #1 VTO under the magic box that is SLG.
Longer answer - my previous non-PBS carrier operated by creating secondary lines like I described. Having used both for months of bidding I can tell you it is infinitely better than this turd of a system. Publishing secondary lines for bidding preserves seniority and better ensures quality schedules. If it's better for the secondary lines to have a PBS generator, why isn't it better for the primary bid?
Secondary lines for mid-range pilots should enable the chance of better trips than they can normally hold on the primary bid, especially during popular vacation months where the even-more-senior guys conflict. For the junior pilots, it should allow them to fly regular looking lines instead of reserve lines due to available trips created by other junior pilots slightly ahead of them dropping for MIL leave, AQP, or XTRA trips that are added after the primary bid. Because the junior secondary bidder now has trips instead of all RA that were "unknown" just a few weeks prior, he can manipulate his schedule with trades or drops etc.
In our current "situation", a junior pilot could end up with 19 days of RA in a row, and a senior pilot could not get most of the trips he wants anyway because the system/algorithm is optimized for company benefit and coverage, not a seniority-based bid. Either way we're worse off at both ends of the seniority spectrum.
All's I'm saying is the secondary bid should not be a total crapshoot. Creating lines for bidding will allow some semblance of order for seniority and will require a minimum quality in secondary line construction by the company.
DR K
Short answer - As we speak, you're probably not getting all 5 of those trips as the #1 VTO under the magic box that is SLG.
Longer answer - my previous non-PBS carrier operated by creating secondary lines like I described. Having used both for months of bidding I can tell you it is infinitely better than this turd of a system. Publishing secondary lines for bidding preserves seniority and better ensures quality schedules. If it's better for the secondary lines to have a PBS generator, why isn't it better for the primary bid?
Secondary lines for mid-range pilots should enable the chance of better trips than they can normally hold on the primary bid, especially during popular vacation months where the even-more-senior guys conflict. For the junior pilots, it should allow them to fly regular looking lines instead of reserve lines due to available trips created by other junior pilots slightly ahead of them dropping for MIL leave, AQP, or XTRA trips that are added after the primary bid. Because the junior secondary bidder now has trips instead of all RA that were "unknown" just a few weeks prior, he can manipulate his schedule with trades or drops etc.
In our current "situation", a junior pilot could end up with 19 days of RA in a row, and a senior pilot could not get most of the trips he wants anyway because the system/algorithm is optimized for company benefit and coverage, not a seniority-based bid. Either way we're worse off at both ends of the seniority spectrum.
All's I'm saying is the secondary bid should not be a total crapshoot. Creating lines for bidding will allow some semblance of order for seniority and will require a minimum quality in secondary line construction by the company.
DR K
02-11-2019, 03:01 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Dr K
I've only gone through the new VTO process twice.
#3 guy once and I think the earlier was about #7
On both occasions,
I was awarded every Trip I could hold Seniority wise. IOW-some of the trips I didn't get went to those to a higher Seniority.
One of the Big things that needs improvement is the way Scheduling Doesn't Update the snapshot...and guy's who've picked up late breaking Carryover trips have adversely impacted their QOL...and that of those Junior to them.
How deep the flying goes in any particular bid month is Highly dependent upon what regular line holders do with their Vacation and regular training bids. Tends to go deeper say, April-August. And even with the greatly reduced number of Vacation periods in December, December's usually a great VTO month.
The big thing that is different now that this system is active is that, let's say the bottom 20% of VTO lines formerly would have been a published Reserve line...whereas now there are More VTO lines. What would've formerly been 30 VTO lines 60 reserve lines is now 60 VTO lines and 30 reserve lines.
And, even if you were the number one guy...you wouldn't know what you were getting because it was "a request" with no reasons report what so ever. And no way to improve the process.
I've only gone through the new VTO process twice.
#3 guy once and I think the earlier was about #7
On both occasions,
I was awarded every Trip I could hold Seniority wise. IOW-some of the trips I didn't get went to those to a higher Seniority.
One of the Big things that needs improvement is the way Scheduling Doesn't Update the snapshot...and guy's who've picked up late breaking Carryover trips have adversely impacted their QOL...and that of those Junior to them.
How deep the flying goes in any particular bid month is Highly dependent upon what regular line holders do with their Vacation and regular training bids. Tends to go deeper say, April-August. And even with the greatly reduced number of Vacation periods in December, December's usually a great VTO month.
The big thing that is different now that this system is active is that, let's say the bottom 20% of VTO lines formerly would have been a published Reserve line...whereas now there are More VTO lines. What would've formerly been 30 VTO lines 60 reserve lines is now 60 VTO lines and 30 reserve lines.
And, even if you were the number one guy...you wouldn't know what you were getting because it was "a request" with no reasons report what so ever. And no way to improve the process.
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