USMCFDX

I think he means there are 1693 FOs that are senior to the bottom Captain, i.e. those FOs bypassed bidding Captain.

If we go to the mythical pancake model, the assumption is many FOs would no longer stay FOs and would bid Captain earlier so that can get more pancakes.

FastBurner

Exactly.

The percentiles are of captains (and FOs), so the seniority number is that captain at that percentile (or closest to it). Wasn’t meant to add the numbers, just to give captains and FOs an idea of where they fall in the bottom 50% (capt) or top 50% (FOs).

meatloaf

This whole concept is not a brilliant move.

We are pilots talking about pancakes and the Ivy-league negotiating attorneys are going to be using steak knives on us. We now hear constantly about "cost-cutting"--fuel, fuel, fuel, smaller hotel budgets, shorter layovers, sit in the heat like a dumbass vs run the APU. How are YOUR bid packs looking these days? Better than 3-4 years ago? If you think so you are delusional. We are being squeezed at every turn. Fred and the MBAs put the word out. It's happening.

Historically, we agree to something and the company does what it wants to anyway regardless of meaning or intent. (See R-24, accepted fares, etc.)

Improve the B Plan. Don't screw with the VAC system or our A Plan for 1 simple reason: "Improvements" seldom are around here.

StillFlying

For those that say "improve the B Plan", from the aspect of their upgrading timeline, wouldn't that have the same effect as going to this new benefit plan? If not, how so? More money earlier means (most likely) more money in retirement. (And probably more so, as there is no downside protection from market risk except your astute knowledge of equity and credit markets.)

At the same time, for those that say "improve the A plan", what incentive does the company have to improve the A plan for its pilots?

At the same time, for those that say, "Don't touch the A plan," it seems to me the company, although having to add in more physical dollars each year, the company would rather have this thing wither on the vine until the purchasing power of $130k is nothing. I'm in my early 40s and I looked to see what our pension would be if I retire in 20 years and live for another 40. In 20 years, $130,000 worth of purchasing power will have the purchasing power of about today's $85,000. Over 40 years, $130,000 worth of purchasing power will have the same purchasing power of about $35,000 in today's dollars. If historic averages hold.

I am not 100% sold on the VBP, or whatever it is currently called, but what am I missing from three of the biggest counter-statements from the VBP?

StarClipper

I’ll give you one BIG thing you’re missing. At your age, if you were to go out on LTD for about 10yrs, under the current A Plan you can still come back and get your high 5. There is no provision for such benefit under that POS VB Plan.

FrankTheTank

Also with the A plan, the Company assumes all the risk. So though worth less purchasing power, it is a close as you can ever get to a guarantee, instead of a maybe!

Fdxlag2

Great argument for one plan does not fit all and we should look at multiple voluntary options.

StillFlying

Has it definitively been stated that there is no provision for this LTD benefit? If so, can you point me to that statement?

USMCFDX

It’s all rainbows right now. Here is a question. Why would the company open up one section of the contract and just give us an added benefit?

StarClipper

I’ve ask the question numerous times and none of the union reps are able to give answer. One rep said it’s not wasn’t a big issue seen only a small percentage of guys are affected in such areas.
So if you now of any provisions, please feel free to share.