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Retirement Plan Negotiations?

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Retirement Plan Negotiations?

Old 07-08-2019, 05:10 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
We do NOT lose PBGC coverage. VB plan is governed by IRS regulations, lots of reporting requirements, and is still covered by PBGC

(Current PBGC Max pensions based on the year you begin collecting the protected pension)
60-43.7k
61-48.4k
62-53.2k
63-57.9k
64-62.6k
65-67.3k
Again you fail to answer the question what has the PBGC said about covering multiple plans? Does the coverage on my current A Plan expire when I transition to the variable stability plan? Or do I get to choose. The Max PBGC benefit is based on the “tax” collected on the traditional A Fund. Isn’t one of the advantages of the stable variable plan that the PBGC fees are reduced? Do they make up the difference in volume?
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:11 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
Here's the thing, I know what I make now. I know what I expect to make this year, as well as 2021.

I know what the IRS limits are now, all I can do is WAG what they will be next year, and Cap these notional contributions accordingly.

Really not difficult to make a Spreadsheet that tabulates 2% of my predicted earnings. The starting verbiage of this plan was a pilot getting The Higher of the 2% floor or Market returns in Excess of a 5% hurdle. (The recent add on verbiage to the plan is a pilot will get the Higher of the 2% floor, Returns on Market, or the 2%*YOS*High 5 a Pilot would accrue under our current pension)


The Legalese Verbiage is about Predicted Returns above 5%. The Very Far right bar of the model shows a range of Pension values. The base value is the Floor, the next color is the likely returns, the very top segment is the historically possible returns but unlikely. Don't remember the % but it's something along the lines of these market returns occur 3-5% of the time
The VB plan as presented is capped at the IRS earnings limits. You said yourself that the IRS limits are a WAG. So, why isn't the VB plan a WAG? The 2% floor is what the union is saying they want, but isn't protected by law. It has to be negotiated, so that is a WAG as well. I've asked to see the openers that they sent to the company, or a summary just like they send out for section 6. So far, crickets.

Right now, the company contributions equal 35% - 41% of the IRS contribution limits, depending on age. The rest of the money that counts toward that limit is pilots personal money. So you are willing to take a WAG with the VB plan, but not with an increased B plan. The company could agree to double the B plan contribution and every single pilot on the property would benefit.

The thing about our current DB plan is that the benefit isn't a WAG. I've asked the MEC about the difference in cost for increasing the DB plan vs the cost of their proposed VB plan. 16 months later, no answer. I was told that it was very complicated, and they needed to ask chieron about it. Seems to me that they told the used car dealer how much they could afford in monthly payments, and the dealer is giving them a Yugo at a Mercedes price.

Last edited by pinseeker; 07-08-2019 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:16 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by Nightflyer View Post
What the union puts out is not believable.

They are the same people who said "lie flat seats" would not hurt us.

They were wrong then, and many other times.

Are you going to trust them with your retirement?

I am not.
And...had our Negotiating Chairman bothered to ASK if there would be an impact on the Deviation Banks instead of Thinking he'd asked or Assuming a Capital (S) made no difference to the CBA language that followed regarding Deviation banks being credited with the Highest Class of Service authorized & available...what would've been the result of the Grievance?


In general-it's a Binary Solution. Negotiate with the Company or Stick with the Status Quo.

If we never enter into Negotiations, than we can Never Unfork the Deviation bank impact imposed by Losing the Grievance
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:18 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
What has been said is that we are aware of the issue and LTD protection is part of the plan.

Exactly HOW it's addressed, hasn't been communicated.

I would say, an example of going out for 10 years and then coming back....is pretty unlikely. No real feel for it, but most of the guys I've flown with have been out 12-18 months and then returned.
Your sound like the union guys. I would like to know how the LTD protection is part of the plan. And going out on 10yr LTD being unlikely is not an acceptable answer because it is possible.
We carry Haz and sleep in different beds every night. An accident can happen at anytime, even on the ramp. We shouldn’t be giving things we have, we should be trying to improve them.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:19 AM
  #235  
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The point of disability is not whether you are out for 18, 36 or 120 months, the point is under our current plan you continue to earn that extra 2% per year.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:25 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 View Post
The point of disability is not whether you are out for 18, 36 or 120 months, the point is under our current plan you continue to earn that extra 2% per year.
Thank you very much, that’s what the union fail to comprehend. And they keep giving me this vague answers with no details.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:30 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 View Post
The point of disability is not whether you are out for 18, 36 or 120 months, the point is under our current plan you continue to earn that extra 2% per year.
You don't earn 2%, but you still accrue longevity.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:32 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 View Post
Isn’t one of the advantages of the stable variable plan that the PBGC fees are reduced? Do they make up the difference in volume?
That is what they use to try to sell the plan, but it isn't exactly true. The PBGC fees are only reduced if the company planned on underfunding our current DB plan. Otherwise, the fees are exactly the same for both plans. The benefit for the company is that they don't have to make extra contributions to fund the VB plan if the market under performs, unless they agree to pay for some sort of floor benefit. But, we could help by capping the returns and smoothing out market performance. And the pyramid scheme begins.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:39 AM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
What has been said is that we are aware of the issue and LTD protection is part of the plan.

Exactly HOW it's addressed, hasn't been communicated.

I would say, an example of going out for 10 years and then coming back....is pretty unlikely. No real feel for it, but most of the guys I've flown with have been out 12-18 months and then returned.
Yes, most of the people you would fly with are the ones who haven't been out for a long time, because the long time LTD folks are still out. And most of them aren't 757 first officers. People who have been on LTD for years sometimes end up staying out permanently. The numbers of us who have gone out and will go out on LTD are staggering. It could happen to any of us. One day you're walking around, feeling fit and in the best of health, and the next minute something takes you out and if you survive, then you have to fight to get your medical back. At least you're accruing longevity towards your retirement.

If the negotiators don't lock in solid protection for people on LTD, no matter the length of time, I'm out. It's non negotiable. Even though I will be over 25 years and have my max, it's just plain wrong.
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:27 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by The Walrus View Post
You don't earn 2%, but you still accrue longevity.
Maybe I don’t understand longevity.

So if I retire at 20 years what percentage of my high 5 do I get?

If I retire at 19 years what percent do I get?

If I work for 19 years and go on disability for a year and then retire what percent do I get?
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