Retirement Plan Negotiations?
#231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 936
We do NOT lose PBGC coverage. VB plan is governed by IRS regulations, lots of reporting requirements, and is still covered by PBGC
(Current PBGC Max pensions based on the year you begin collecting the protected pension)
60-43.7k
61-48.4k
62-53.2k
63-57.9k
64-62.6k
65-67.3k
(Current PBGC Max pensions based on the year you begin collecting the protected pension)
60-43.7k
61-48.4k
62-53.2k
63-57.9k
64-62.6k
65-67.3k
#232
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Here's the thing, I know what I make now. I know what I expect to make this year, as well as 2021.
I know what the IRS limits are now, all I can do is WAG what they will be next year, and Cap these notional contributions accordingly.
Really not difficult to make a Spreadsheet that tabulates 2% of my predicted earnings. The starting verbiage of this plan was a pilot getting The Higher of the 2% floor or Market returns in Excess of a 5% hurdle. (The recent add on verbiage to the plan is a pilot will get the Higher of the 2% floor, Returns on Market, or the 2%*YOS*High 5 a Pilot would accrue under our current pension)
The Legalese Verbiage is about Predicted Returns above 5%. The Very Far right bar of the model shows a range of Pension values. The base value is the Floor, the next color is the likely returns, the very top segment is the historically possible returns but unlikely. Don't remember the % but it's something along the lines of these market returns occur 3-5% of the time
I know what the IRS limits are now, all I can do is WAG what they will be next year, and Cap these notional contributions accordingly.
Really not difficult to make a Spreadsheet that tabulates 2% of my predicted earnings. The starting verbiage of this plan was a pilot getting The Higher of the 2% floor or Market returns in Excess of a 5% hurdle. (The recent add on verbiage to the plan is a pilot will get the Higher of the 2% floor, Returns on Market, or the 2%*YOS*High 5 a Pilot would accrue under our current pension)
The Legalese Verbiage is about Predicted Returns above 5%. The Very Far right bar of the model shows a range of Pension values. The base value is the Floor, the next color is the likely returns, the very top segment is the historically possible returns but unlikely. Don't remember the % but it's something along the lines of these market returns occur 3-5% of the time
Right now, the company contributions equal 35% - 41% of the IRS contribution limits, depending on age. The rest of the money that counts toward that limit is pilots personal money. So you are willing to take a WAG with the VB plan, but not with an increased B plan. The company could agree to double the B plan contribution and every single pilot on the property would benefit.
The thing about our current DB plan is that the benefit isn't a WAG. I've asked the MEC about the difference in cost for increasing the DB plan vs the cost of their proposed VB plan. 16 months later, no answer. I was told that it was very complicated, and they needed to ask chieron about it. Seems to me that they told the used car dealer how much they could afford in monthly payments, and the dealer is giving them a Yugo at a Mercedes price.
Last edited by pinseeker; 07-08-2019 at 05:27 AM.
#233
In general-it's a Binary Solution. Negotiate with the Company or Stick with the Status Quo.
If we never enter into Negotiations, than we can Never Unfork the Deviation bank impact imposed by Losing the Grievance
#234
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
What has been said is that we are aware of the issue and LTD protection is part of the plan.
Exactly HOW it's addressed, hasn't been communicated.
I would say, an example of going out for 10 years and then coming back....is pretty unlikely. No real feel for it, but most of the guys I've flown with have been out 12-18 months and then returned.
Exactly HOW it's addressed, hasn't been communicated.
I would say, an example of going out for 10 years and then coming back....is pretty unlikely. No real feel for it, but most of the guys I've flown with have been out 12-18 months and then returned.
We carry Haz and sleep in different beds every night. An accident can happen at anytime, even on the ramp. We shouldn’t be giving things we have, we should be trying to improve them.
#236
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
Thank you very much, that’s what the union fail to comprehend. And they keep giving me this vague answers with no details.
#237
#238
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
That is what they use to try to sell the plan, but it isn't exactly true. The PBGC fees are only reduced if the company planned on underfunding our current DB plan. Otherwise, the fees are exactly the same for both plans. The benefit for the company is that they don't have to make extra contributions to fund the VB plan if the market under performs, unless they agree to pay for some sort of floor benefit. But, we could help by capping the returns and smoothing out market performance. And the pyramid scheme begins.
#239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
What has been said is that we are aware of the issue and LTD protection is part of the plan.
Exactly HOW it's addressed, hasn't been communicated.
I would say, an example of going out for 10 years and then coming back....is pretty unlikely. No real feel for it, but most of the guys I've flown with have been out 12-18 months and then returned.
Exactly HOW it's addressed, hasn't been communicated.
I would say, an example of going out for 10 years and then coming back....is pretty unlikely. No real feel for it, but most of the guys I've flown with have been out 12-18 months and then returned.
If the negotiators don't lock in solid protection for people on LTD, no matter the length of time, I'm out. It's non negotiable. Even though I will be over 25 years and have my max, it's just plain wrong.
#240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 936
Maybe I don’t understand longevity.
So if I retire at 20 years what percentage of my high 5 do I get?
If I retire at 19 years what percent do I get?
If I work for 19 years and go on disability for a year and then retire what percent do I get?
So if I retire at 20 years what percentage of my high 5 do I get?
If I retire at 19 years what percent do I get?
If I work for 19 years and go on disability for a year and then retire what percent do I get?
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