max8222

I updated my SLG bid last night and today on the practice bid it did not use that updated input. When I went to edit preferences both last night and now it shows my updated input. Why didn't they do the practice run with the most current input.

Then to top it off, any line I could hold said they didn't honor line constraints. Gave me two trips that I did not even bid!

Anyone else have these problems? What a piece of sh..!

StarClipper

They did because they can and “The Company Needs The Flexibility” Oh and we get what 57% voted for. The entire 2015 contract is is worthless to me. We she have taken a 15% pay increase with provision for 4% increase per year and kept negotiating the rest of the contract.

Adlerdriver

For the practice run, they took a "snap shot" of the inputs yesterday at noon MEM time. That's what is used for the "intermediate solution" (as they call it) which is what you're seeing today. The next time they run it will be for real, after the SWW closes Monday morning. If you changed something last night, it didn't get considered for the practice.

As far as the trips you got, that's more difficult to analyze. Where are you bidding in the secondary rank, did you only put in specific trips or mix criteria like trip types, days off, etc.

I agree this system is far from impressive. The amazing thing to me is how short sighted the company was on this. This was their chance to make the most amazing PBS system (disguised as our secondary system) in the industry. That's the only way they're ever going to get any traction in pushing PBS in future negotiations. Maybe our pilots on the working group let this become a fail for that very reason. Although, I suspect it was probably more the result of their inputs being ignored since the company was under no requirement to listen to them.

max8222

Adler, Thanks for the reply. Did not realize they took the snapshot yesterday at noon.

I am bidding 30/62 so I should be able to hold something. I still do not understand the "did not honor line constraints" One of the top trips I asked for was a 84 hr single departure so I should have been awarded it.

My top two presences were avoid reserve and off 2-6 Nov which the above trip did not start until the 11th. Plus it works over thanksgiving so saying they needed to give it to me because they needed to assign trips over the holiday does not hold true.

SLG is BS!

StarClipper

Don’t be fooled, if we give away the APlan, the company will come after our QOL next. Our vacation and PBS will be the next two big things. All they have to say is they can’t afford and xxxx airlines does it that way and our union will sell the rest to us.

Adlerdriver

Obviously none of us have extensive experience with this new system. I was pretty well educated on the old one. Based on this "snap shot" thing they're doing and a few other data points, I'm starting to suspect that all they really did with the SLG was agree to generate the lines in seniority order and put a new interface/input method onto the old "black box" that produces the lines.

Even if the line generation system is "new", it sure does seem like it's falling into many of the same old patterns we saw with the old one. My experience with secondaries has always been either in the bottom 10% or the top 10%. Those are easy places to bid from. Days off at the bottom and specific trips at the top.

Right in the middle like you is much harder. The old system would have taken your inputs and assigned a graduated point value to each one (total points 1000). The more you put in, the less "horsepower" each input has. If you put in lots, it's possible for multiple lower inputs that "hit" to combine and overpower your higher desires.

I have no idea if this is still the way it works, but the apple may not fall far from the tree. IMO, I think you wasted your second input. At 30 out of 60, I don't think you were in any danger of getting reserve. I've also had mixed results mixing generic inputs like days off, trip types, max/min BLG, carryover, etc. with specific trip requests.

If I had been bidding for your Nov schedule, I would have tried putting 30 longer trips that suit your schedule desires into, say 6 inputs. Since you were okay working the holiday, anything (especially single dep) that does that will satisfy your 2-6 Nov off criterion. Since most pilots ahead of you are probably trying to get the holiday off, you may not even need to go as high as 30 trips, if some of your top choices work over turkey day. If you have any other trips you input begin shortly after the 6th, the chances you'll get one of those AND a trip that works when you want to be off are drastically reduced.
I don't know if that's good advice based on what's available, but maybe think about it.

Sluggo_63

Was this the updated preference or the one prior to the snapshot? What were your pre-snapshot requests?

Adlerdriver

Did someone ahead of you get that trip? That is one nice thing about the new interface. You can see if someone else senior to you is requesting the same trip you are. Or was that one of the changes you made after the snapshot?

StillFlying

After asking a bunch of Insite questions, I think I am starting to get a feel for the SLG. In saying that, I think the system is fairly junky and like Adlerdriver said, ~~~~~~~

As for "Would not respect Line constraint" message, as I have been told it basically says the program could not build you a line by using that preference and keep all the other constraints that are put into your line. These could include:
Min Max Credit Hours
1 in 7/10 limits
8 in 24

Buffers
Previous preferences
etc etc

Basically all that stuff that is invloved in creating a legal line.


Now there is ONE HUGE point that one needs to realize. The system works through building a line in seniority order going though each of their preferences as a if-then statement. In other words, the program asks "If I give him/her this preference, can I build them a line. If yes, it *will then* be honored, moves on to your next preference, and asks the same question. If not, it gives a reason why not and moves on to your next preference.

Now the HUGE POINT is once it *finishes* off with you it goes to the next person and starts the process over again with what is left over in Open Time. Now by the time it gets to the most junior secondary line holder, there may be very little left over in OT to build them a legal line with all of those line constraints. (For example, it could be back to back RB-RA reserve or trips that can't turn to others.) Sure, the system could build a small CH line that is legal and have the company buy that person up to the min CH, but that wouldn't be fair to have the most senior pilot fly a full line and a junior guy flying less than the min and having his CH bought up. So, as I understand it, instead of doing this, the computer then works its way back up the seniority list getting that junior guy a barely legal line. But by doing that it affects someone more senior who already had that pairing. This process then continues until everyone has a legal line that meets line constraints.

max8222

The trip with 84hrs was not assigned to anyone senior to me. Just said “does not honor lune contraints”.

It honored both my top two choices so I would think it would go to first trip I could hold and give that. Especially if it was a single departure.

I will go in and take out the no reserve since there are plenty of trips. Hopefully simplifying and already simple set of requests!