Pros and cons of the MD11
#12
The two issues against the jet are the shrinking bidpack as the -10 goes away (rumored to pick up pace this year) and IMHO the reduction in recurrent training.
When I went to the right seat in 2008/9, I thought the training, while thorough, was very very good. I enjoyed training, to include the sims, LOFTs, and IOE with some great check airmen.
This was just before flight 80. We were pushed to be at the "top of the automation pyramid" at all times when possible. I think Bob Gasko was training or standards boss then.
Once we had the Narita crash, RST (runway safety training) began in earnest. We were encouraged to hand fly a bit more. I thought that was a pretty good effort. Since I left the jet, even more training has been brought in for runway safety, and it seems(ed) like things were good. My only concern is now that the accident is 9 years past, training is going to 9/18. Maybe for some--that's enough. For some--its overkill. The MD is much, much more demanding in some phases than the 767. More power, more complex systems (quick--how many fuel tanks on an -11?) more complex automation, and the whole 50 foot down set of issues. Personally, if I went to the MD, I'd strongly consider that "free" sim the contract offers us every year. I'll probably use it as well before my next event even on the 76. I think my performance has diminished a bit with less frequent recurrent. That's my issue to fix, but the -11 really does require a good handle on its quirks.
All that said--I enjoyed flying it more than any other transport I've gotten to fly (727, 767, 757, and MD-11). If you can stay on top of it--its hard to beat.
When I went to the right seat in 2008/9, I thought the training, while thorough, was very very good. I enjoyed training, to include the sims, LOFTs, and IOE with some great check airmen.
This was just before flight 80. We were pushed to be at the "top of the automation pyramid" at all times when possible. I think Bob Gasko was training or standards boss then.
Once we had the Narita crash, RST (runway safety training) began in earnest. We were encouraged to hand fly a bit more. I thought that was a pretty good effort. Since I left the jet, even more training has been brought in for runway safety, and it seems(ed) like things were good. My only concern is now that the accident is 9 years past, training is going to 9/18. Maybe for some--that's enough. For some--its overkill. The MD is much, much more demanding in some phases than the 767. More power, more complex systems (quick--how many fuel tanks on an -11?) more complex automation, and the whole 50 foot down set of issues. Personally, if I went to the MD, I'd strongly consider that "free" sim the contract offers us every year. I'll probably use it as well before my next event even on the 76. I think my performance has diminished a bit with less frequent recurrent. That's my issue to fix, but the -11 really does require a good handle on its quirks.
All that said--I enjoyed flying it more than any other transport I've gotten to fly (727, 767, 757, and MD-11). If you can stay on top of it--its hard to beat.
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Re-reading George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' and getting scared...
Posts: 276
Well said Albie - It's kind of like the T-38 conundrum with me - love to fly it, but there are times you need to always be on your A Game or it will bite you!
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
I wonder if initial selection into the MD-11 training program is nothing more than a super-seniority based move, whereby guys selected report one day early, and get their employee number (seniority number) one day before the rest of their classmates. Just wondering.
JJ
JJ
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: MD-11/C-17
Posts: 249
Who gets selected for it seems to have shifted of late. For a while it had been C-17, KC-10, and carrier qualed guys and gals. Now I know the new folks from the -17 world are getting whatever is in the bid.
Of late, I’ve had buds with A320 and CRJ backgrounds “selected” for the MD, So there’s been a bit of a shift.
It’s a great gig if it works out. Very few folks already on property bid into the right seat... but eventually the bid back will really start to shrink.
#17
As for a shrinking bidpack, it is but so far not too bad, knock on wood. If I was just starting out, I'd go 777 or 767. I love flying the MD, like the trips, and really enjoy flying with the MD pilots.
Sampling of number of Regular lines:
MAR13 357
JUN13 338
SEP13 352
DEC13 370
MAR14 359
JUN14 344
SEP14 328
DEC14 333
MAR15 295
JUN15 278
SEP15 265
DEC15 258
MAR16 258
JUN16 255
SEP16 246
DEC16 278
MAR17 264
JUN17 250
SEP17 277
DEC17 297
MAR18 266
JUN18 285
SEP18 266
DEC18 302
#18
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 16
That’s exactly why you show the day prior. Same applies to the FDAs.
Who gets selected for it seems to have shifted of late. For a while it had been C-17, KC-10, and carrier qualed guys and gals. Now I know the new folks from the -17 world are getting whatever is in the bid.
Of late, I’ve had buds with A320 and CRJ backgrounds “selected” for the MD, So there’s been a bit of a shift.
It’s a great gig if it works out. Very few folks already on property bid into the right seat... but eventually the bid back will really start to shrink.
Who gets selected for it seems to have shifted of late. For a while it had been C-17, KC-10, and carrier qualed guys and gals. Now I know the new folks from the -17 world are getting whatever is in the bid.
Of late, I’ve had buds with A320 and CRJ backgrounds “selected” for the MD, So there’s been a bit of a shift.
It’s a great gig if it works out. Very few folks already on property bid into the right seat... but eventually the bid back will really start to shrink.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 142
The MD bid pack is in my opinion the best we have. A lot of variety in it. That being said, a new guy can’t really realistically expect much if any international flying except Canada, Mexico, and a few lucky trips on reserve. One thing I really like about the MD bid pack compared to the 777 is that it’s really easy to manipulate your schedule and drop/pick up trips with all the 1 day pairings we have. Not so easy to drop day 5 of a 12 day international pairing on the 777. Any plane that gets you in the door here is a good one though,
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