PUB call 18 May 2021
05-18-2021, 06:43 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
PUB call 18 May 2021
I am going to try to ask a question or two during today's PUB call. If the MEC officers change my question's wording as they have in the past, I will post the original question here. I ask everyone to consider posting their original questions here if they are modified.
The membership deserves to have our questions answered. Not their interpretation of our questions answered.
The membership deserves to have our questions answered. Not their interpretation of our questions answered.
05-18-2021, 09:04 AM
#2
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
The Variable Plan is still alive
It should be clear to anyone who attended this morning's GoToMeeting "PUB Call" that the MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman are too ashamed to admit that they are focused on a variable benefit plan.
Once again we heard that they have all the smart people on their team, and us dumb pilots should just shut up, stop asking questions, and color.
This is not going to be pretty.
(I asked the following question:
"In every hub turn meeting and Joint Council Meeting I have attended where there was a presentation about a Variable Benefit Plan, and in every video, podcast, or written communication I have watched, listened to, or read, the variable benefit plan or Stabilized Benefit plan has never been referred to as a Defined Benefit plan. Since you (speaking to Chase) in your Chairman's message referred to our future retirement package as consisting of a combination of a Defined Benefit plan and a Defined Contribution plan, and the Openers Document uses the same Defined Benefit language, can you please clarify. Have you, the Negotiating Committee, and the MEC shifted away from the variable or stabilized plans back towards improving the A Plan that we currently have, or are you trying to convince someone that a variable benefit plan is a Defined Benefit plan?"
The MEC Chairman deflected with a personal attack.)
.
Once again we heard that they have all the smart people on their team, and us dumb pilots should just shut up, stop asking questions, and color.
This is not going to be pretty.
(I asked the following question:
"In every hub turn meeting and Joint Council Meeting I have attended where there was a presentation about a Variable Benefit Plan, and in every video, podcast, or written communication I have watched, listened to, or read, the variable benefit plan or Stabilized Benefit plan has never been referred to as a Defined Benefit plan. Since you (speaking to Chase) in your Chairman's message referred to our future retirement package as consisting of a combination of a Defined Benefit plan and a Defined Contribution plan, and the Openers Document uses the same Defined Benefit language, can you please clarify. Have you, the Negotiating Committee, and the MEC shifted away from the variable or stabilized plans back towards improving the A Plan that we currently have, or are you trying to convince someone that a variable benefit plan is a Defined Benefit plan?"
The MEC Chairman deflected with a personal attack.)
.
05-18-2021, 09:31 AM
#5
Fill'er Up Again
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Scarebus Captain
Posts: 1,089
Originally Posted by The Walrus
Once negotiated, if you can't define the benefit that I'll receive when I retire at 60, or 62, or 65 or tomorrow, then it's not a defined benefit. Do they think we are stupid?
In their defense, we kinda are.. Look at their cheerleader Kronan and the couple of trolls that may or may not work here. They are still all in, despite, the well argued and documented reasons against the Pancake Plan!
05-18-2021, 09:57 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 168
The manner in which this question was handled was an embarrassment to the entire association. It’s a shame, despite having people “giving” their time to be in these positions, they still operate as a singular group that will “take responsibility for what they negotiate.”
Once a TA is reached, there will be so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt sewn by these very same members in an attempt to save face, it will be laughable.
Please, I know you read this at your couch at home. MEC, you know this is acting in bad faith, fix it before the damage is irreparable.
Once a TA is reached, there will be so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt sewn by these very same members in an attempt to save face, it will be laughable.
Please, I know you read this at your couch at home. MEC, you know this is acting in bad faith, fix it before the damage is irreparable.
05-18-2021, 01:54 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by TonyC
It should be clear to anyone who attended this morning's GoToMeeting "PUB Call" that the MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman are too ashamed to admit that they are focused on a variable benefit plan.
Once again we heard that they have all the smart people on their team, and us dumb pilots should just shut up, stop asking questions, and color.
This is not going to be pretty.
(I asked the following question:
"In every hub turn meeting and Joint Council Meeting I have attended where there was a presentation about a Variable Benefit Plan, and in every video, podcast, or written communication I have watched, listened to, or read, the variable benefit plan or Stabilized Benefit plan has never been referred to as a Defined Benefit plan. Since you (speaking to Chase) in your Chairman's message referred to our future retirement package as consisting of a combination of a Defined Benefit plan and a Defined Contribution plan, and the Openers Document uses the same Defined Benefit language, can you please clarify. Have you, the Negotiating Committee, and the MEC shifted away from the variable or stabilized plans back towards improving the A Plan that we currently have, or are you trying to convince someone that a variable benefit plan is a Defined Benefit plan?"
The MEC Chairman deflected with a personal attack.)
.
Once again we heard that they have all the smart people on their team, and us dumb pilots should just shut up, stop asking questions, and color.
This is not going to be pretty.
(I asked the following question:
"In every hub turn meeting and Joint Council Meeting I have attended where there was a presentation about a Variable Benefit Plan, and in every video, podcast, or written communication I have watched, listened to, or read, the variable benefit plan or Stabilized Benefit plan has never been referred to as a Defined Benefit plan. Since you (speaking to Chase) in your Chairman's message referred to our future retirement package as consisting of a combination of a Defined Benefit plan and a Defined Contribution plan, and the Openers Document uses the same Defined Benefit language, can you please clarify. Have you, the Negotiating Committee, and the MEC shifted away from the variable or stabilized plans back towards improving the A Plan that we currently have, or are you trying to convince someone that a variable benefit plan is a Defined Benefit plan?"
The MEC Chairman deflected with a personal attack.)
.
05-18-2021, 02:22 PM
#8
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by cargoforlife
Is this recorded anywhere? I want to listen to this.
.
05-18-2021, 06:57 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
I asked a few questions, here they are:
1) Please define a “straw poll” and how it is used by the MEC during negotiations. And can it be used to have actionable items?
The MEC Chairman declined to answer.
2) I asked about the officers and staff returning to the office now that the governmental restrictions are lifted.
I was told the staff does not work for the MEC Chairman and national still has our staff on rotations. Working from home at times and working from the office at times.
Then in the afternoon sessionI asked:
1) If PSPP is a DB plan, why does it use the defined contribution compensation limit (same limit as our B fund, $290K)?
The MEC chairman chided me about not being a Retirement SME like he was before he quit that volunteer position and said our DB plan, PSPP, and the B plan all have that same limit.
I thought our DB plan has a deferred compensation limit of $230K (130K back in 1999). While our B plan and PSPP use the defined contribution compensation limit ($290K currently).
1) Please define a “straw poll” and how it is used by the MEC during negotiations. And can it be used to have actionable items?
The MEC Chairman declined to answer.
2) I asked about the officers and staff returning to the office now that the governmental restrictions are lifted.
I was told the staff does not work for the MEC Chairman and national still has our staff on rotations. Working from home at times and working from the office at times.
Then in the afternoon sessionI asked:
1) If PSPP is a DB plan, why does it use the defined contribution compensation limit (same limit as our B fund, $290K)?
The MEC chairman chided me about not being a Retirement SME like he was before he quit that volunteer position and said our DB plan, PSPP, and the B plan all have that same limit.
I thought our DB plan has a deferred compensation limit of $230K (130K back in 1999). While our B plan and PSPP use the defined contribution compensation limit ($290K currently).
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