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Old 04-21-2019, 04:18 PM   #31  
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OK, it used to be that you didn't have to stay in MEM for the IAP, so I would get on the jump seat, betting they wouldn't call me. If they did, and they couldn't talk to you, that was considered a "decline sub" event.

They I heard that the company was calling people, and if they didn't answer, it was not longer a decline of sub, like it used to be, but something else, I can't remember what.

Can someone clarify whether or not you can get on the J/S during the IAP without harming yourself?
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:21 AM   #32  
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Kronan,

Thank you for the explanation.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:46 AM   #33  
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OK, it used to be that you didn't have to stay in MEM for the IAP, so I would get on the jump seat, betting they wouldn't call me. If they did, and they couldn't talk to you, that was considered a "decline sub" event.

They I heard that the company was calling people, and if they didn't answer, it was not longer a decline of sub, like it used to be, but something else, I can't remember what.

Can someone clarify whether or not you can get on the J/S during the IAP without harming yourself?
This is what I do in situations like this.
I communicate. I call Scheduling and ask them what's what? Anything happening. And then I tell them I'm on FedEx 1234, and will be unavailable for about 90 minutes in my case. Let them know that I will be declining any Operating trip, but will likely accept any DH to work trip but that I will check VIPs as soon as I land and let them know ASAP before I start driving home.

I do the same thing when I'm HSBY and it's Dinner\lunch time. I call CRS and let them know I'm on my cell.

Or when I'm unavailable during a flight physical.
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:49 AM   #34  
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You may have a ton of events upcoming and don't want to work another day, somewhen in the future.

The most lucrative CH week I've ever had at FedEx was a result of SUB\Extensions. DH to work on Monday, Monday's flight was swept to Indy and revised with a rest\HSBY, then revised with a rest\HSBY...rinse repeat until Operated out Friday AM with a backend DH. Same footprint as my 30 hour hub turn week, big CHs thanks to the 150% and 200% overage, Extra Duty periods, and disruptions.



After we made it to the hotel that first night, and I grabbed a midnight beer to preclude a CRS change of the mind, I opted for OTP for that 1st 6 hour trip that went away, and then the 2nd, but 3rd & 4th I declined outright. Back then OTP was bid period +1, so might make a different choice today.



But again, that would depend on the timing.



Ultimately, you will always get more $$ choosing OTP. But the cost is another day of work, somewhen. If you have a staycation month during that somewhen, cherry picking an extra day of work isn't a big deal.



All depends upon what you want to do.



Substitution is one of the very few times where the power to work\not work is totally under a pilots control. And if you have day flying, you can even say NO to CRS's BS Sub assignment with certain conditions and not impact on your pay.



Spend some time chair-flying Substitution. Once you understand it, evaluating your options and making a decision is easy. And, you can make more $$ by understanding it and exercising your choice.



Or, you can do nothing and simply be paid BLG.



Or, you can wind up working extra when you didn't really have to.



(Had one bud with a trip removed for legality, he was leaning towards OTP when I pointed out that there would be no WAY for the company to Legally give him a SUB assignment so why go for an extra 90 minutes of pay in exchange for an extra day of work in the future when he could simply have a paid day off. His rationale was that he didn't want to stay in Memphis for his IAP on the SUB window, and I pointed out that there's no Requirement to stay in Memphis or at the airport during the IAP...and that you can always say NO to a SUB assignment. But a SUB assignment has to be a Legal assignment and since he was removed for Legality....not an option to use him that night)

How many different iterations of possible scenarios should we chair fly? The substitution chart doesnít make sense to me and gives me a headache just looking at it (probably because no one Iíve asked so far has been able to make sense of it to me, but then again, Iím just a pilot).

There is something to be said for simplicity. The problem with these type of contractual clauses that supposedly is good with pilots is that ultimately, if the pilot doesnít understand it, itís useless. When a contract is overly complicated, it makes it less likely for pilots to be able to enforce it. If itís difficult to interpret, the pilots wonít know when they are being abused.

The contract needs to be simplified.
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:45 PM   #35  
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How many different iterations of possible scenarios should we chair fly? The substitution chart doesn’t make sense to me and gives me a headache just looking at it (probably because no one I’ve asked so far has been able to make sense of it to me, but then again, I’m just a pilot).

There is something to be said for simplicity. The problem with these type of contractual clauses that supposedly is good with pilots is that ultimately, if the pilot doesn’t understand it, it’s useless. When a contract is overly complicated, it makes it less likely for pilots to be able to enforce it. If it’s difficult to interpret, the pilots won’t know when they are being abused.

The contract needs to be simplified.
There are 3 scenarios.

Early cancel. Which happens occasionally when the equipment changes post bid award, but prior to the month starting. Few years back had one Airbus friend go into SUB every Tuesday + Thursday for the entire month due to this.

Small trip overlap. EG, supposed to be back at Midnight and you have an 0130 show, but you don't block in til 0200. (Note-Company might\might not remove you and place you in SUB for an overlap like this. Only requirement is to reschedule your outbound departure to accommodate one hour in Memphis. In this example, simply putting an ETD of 0300 works. Note-NO debrief time required and you'll likely walk into AOC with a Contact Crew Scheduling page echoing and the potential to have to call to check-in)

Big trip overlap. EG-you return at least 12 hours later, but more likely your return slips a day.

(A small subset is removed for legality or a weather cancellation---EG, Nothing CRS can Use you for. Situations like this pretty much a no brainer to stay in SUB. But that's just me. I've spent some time chair flying the various options and thus, don't have to reinvent the wheel every time SUB comes my way)
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:48 PM   #36  
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There are 3 scenarios.

Early cancel. Which happens occasionally when the equipment changes post bid award, but prior to the month starting. Few years back had one Airbus friend go into SUB every Tuesday + Thursday for the entire month due to this.

Small trip overlap. EG, supposed to be back at Midnight and you have an 0130 show, but you don't block in til 0200. (Note-Company might\might not remove you and place you in SUB for an overlap like this. Only requirement is to reschedule your outbound departure to accommodate one hour in Memphis. In this example, simply putting an ETD of 0300 works. Note-NO debrief time required and you'll likely walk into AOC with a Contact Crew Scheduling page echoing and the potential to have to call to check-in)

Big trip overlap. EG-you return at least 12 hours later, but more likely your return slips a day.

(A small subset is removed for legality or a weather cancellation---EG, Nothing CRS can Use you for. Situations like this pretty much a no brainer to stay in SUB. But that's just me. I've spent some time chair flying the various options and thus, don't have to reinvent the wheel every time SUB comes my way)
You know what the Default Option is?

Stay in SUB. Worst case you lose the trip overage if you don't know what you're doing. Something I guarantee FedEx is happy not paying.
Happy that Pilots don't want to make the effort to understand how various things impact their Pay.

Absolutely overjoyed to have Pilots fail to file for the Disruption compensation they are owed in certain circumstances. And totally copacetic with people simply claiming the 10$ or 0$ on a NOCAT pairing instead of the 25$ they are contractually owed.
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:11 PM   #37  
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OK, it used to be that you didn't have to stay in MEM for the IAP, so I would get on the jump seat, betting they wouldn't call me. If they did, and they couldn't talk to you, that was considered a "decline sub" event.

They I heard that the company was calling people, and if they didn't answer, it was not longer a decline of sub, like it used to be, but something else, I can't remember what.

Can someone clarify whether or not you can get on the J/S during the IAP without harming yourself?
I wonder if you're asking if it is considered a "missed trip" if they can't get ahold of you? I hadn't heard of that, and can't imagine that would be a factor, though you never know of CRS's creative interpretations. Could that be an issue based upon the sentence in the contract, "except that no assignment may be rejected within 4 hours of showtime"? How did our negotiators ever allow that sentence to exist? I guess if they try to assign you a sub trip and tell you that you must accept the assignment, you can always say you aren't rested for that trip. Kind of a problem if you don't happen to be in Memphis (as of course, you're not required to be) and if the trip leaves from base.

I think if I was jumpseating home during my availability period, right before I went out to the airplane, I'd give them a heads up that I'm going to be on a jumpseat during that time. I would never call them to tell them I'm going to eat dinner during a standby period, that would be aggravating calling them every time I leave the hotel room. But I do call them at the beginning of my hotel standby trip to tell them to call my cell phone first if they need me.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:16 PM   #38  
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They I heard that the company was calling people, and if they didn't answer, it was not longer a decline of sub, like it used to be, but something else, I can't remember what.

Can someone clarify whether or not you can get on the J/S during the IAP without harming yourself?
Yes. This started during contract negotiations.

Section 25.H.3. Initial Availability Period. Beginning 4 hours prior to the showtime of his original trip or once notified of substitution eligibility, which is later, HE SHALL BE AVAILABLE for substitution assignment until 4 hours after showtime of his original trip.


If you decided to go home and were on the jumpseat when CRS called you for a substitution assignment, they considered you not available for contact and gave you a Irregularity Response requiring a chat with the Chief Pilot.

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You know what the Default Option is?

Stay in SUB. Worst case you lose the trip overage if you don't know what you're doing. Something I guarantee FedEx is happy not paying.
Happy that Pilots don't want to make the effort to understand how various things impact their Pay.

Absolutely overjoyed to have Pilots fail to file for the Disruption compensation they are owed in certain circumstances. And totally copacetic with people simply claiming the 10$ or 0$ on a NOCAT pairing instead of the 25$ they are contractually owed.
Absolutely overjoyed we have a Union that doesn't make contract education a priority so the company can violate the contract with ease and not pay the pilots what they are contractually owed.

.... overjoyed to have a Union which agrees to a contract implementation plan which takes years to execute but doesn't tell new members that things they've read in the new contract they were given haven't been implimented yet so they don't go out and get themselves in trouble.

Or in my experience, the type of union where you ask someone about a contract topic while at work and you get two responses: "I don't know." "Contact your sponsor."

And depending on who you talk to in contract enforcement, they don't know the answer either.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:12 PM   #39  
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There are 3 scenarios.

Early cancel. Which happens occasionally when the equipment changes post bid award, but prior to the month starting. Few years back had one Airbus friend go into SUB every Tuesday + Thursday for the entire month due to this.

Small trip overlap. EG, supposed to be back at Midnight and you have an 0130 show, but you don't block in til 0200. (Note-Company might\might not remove you and place you in SUB for an overlap like this. Only requirement is to reschedule your outbound departure to accommodate one hour in Memphis. In this example, simply putting an ETD of 0300 works. Note-NO debrief time required and you'll likely walk into AOC with a Contact Crew Scheduling page echoing and the potential to have to call to check-in)

Big trip overlap. EG-you return at least 12 hours later, but more likely your return slips a day.

(A small subset is removed for legality or a weather cancellation---EG, Nothing CRS can Use you for. Situations like this pretty much a no brainer to stay in SUB. But that's just me. I've spent some time chair flying the various options and thus, don't have to reinvent the wheel every time SUB comes my way)

Well I had a different scenario than that where I had a RAT. What is a RAT? I figured it out easy enough but apparently I was put into Sub, whatever that was/is (that one is whole lot more complicated to figure out). And ultimately had no idea about any of this because I hadnít logged in until after the fact. No big deal, I was deviating anyway and luckily it worked out.

It just simply doesnít need to be this complicated, period. And nothing anyone says is going to convince me of that short of throwing a whole lot more money at it so that I can justify it with more pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronan View Post
You know what the Default Option is?



Stay in SUB. Worst case you lose the trip overage if you don't know what you're doing. Something I guarantee FedEx is happy not paying.

Happy that Pilots don't want to make the effort to understand how various things impact their Pay.



Absolutely overjoyed to have Pilots fail to file for the Disruption compensation they are owed in certain circumstances. And totally copacetic with people simply claiming the 10$ or 0$ on a NOCAT pairing instead of the 25$ they are contractually owed.

Iím not sure why you are quoting arguing against yourself unless you forgot to log out and then log in with a different username. But you are making my point. Luckily I had a captain graciously and unsolicitedly tell me to file NOCAT, what it was, and how to do it. That one is simple enough, as long as one knows about it or is told about it.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:47 PM   #40  
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Yes. This started during contract negotiations.

Section 25.H.3. Initial Availability Period. Beginning 4 hours prior to the showtime of his original trip or once notified of substitution eligibility, which is later, HE SHALL BE AVAILABLE for substitution assignment until 4 hours after showtime of his original trip.


If you decided to go home and were on the jumpseat when CRS called you for a substitution assignment, they considered you not available for contact and gave you a Irregularity Response requiring a chat with the Chief Pilot.
Yikes. I was hoping that wasnít the case. Not surprised though.
Are you then good to get on a j/s at showtime + 4:01 if they havenít assigned you?
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