Overage/Sub/OTP FCIF
04-13-2019, 08:45 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
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Overage/Sub/OTP FCIF
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, an FCIF from 1999 was re-issued today clarifying the three options available if your current trip is extended, creating a conflict with a subsequent trip. One can lose out on some serious dollars if they make the wrong choice depending on the situation. But I'm not trying to help with what you decide, I'm posting to talk about WHEN you make your choice.
In two different paragraphs, the FCIF encourages pilots who are choosing option 1 (drop the trip in conflict to receive the full overage on the extended trip) to make that election "as soon as possible". However, the FCIF clearly states the deadline for that decision is completion of the revised trip that was extended - i.e. 30 minutes after block in. I strongly suggest anyone considering option 1 wait until they have blocked in before making that choice.
The ALPA calendar used to make the same suggestion - choose ASAP and I followed it. I elected to drop the trip in conflict because the overage paid significantly more than the substitution pay for my next trip. After calling crew scheduling and choosing option 1, while I was still on the revised trip, it was revised again. The new revision basically returning it to its original version and footprint. Not only did I no longer have the overage from my revision, I no longer had my next trip and was ineligible for SUB as well since I had dropped it.
Of course the schedulers want you to make your choice between option 1 and 2 ASAP because that makes their job easier. I offer my cautionary tale as one reason to take your time and make the choice after your trip. I also suggest forwarding that FCIF to your personal email for future reference. In my opinion, it does a better job than the current ALPA calendar in clarifying your options and is certainly easier than flipping back and forth between sections 4 and 25 of the contract. Also, some of the details like the 30 minute after block-in deadline are not specifically delineated in the contract. The ALPA calendar is not completely clear on this situation either and appears to only offer the 30-minute post-block in deadline to a reserve pilot.
In two different paragraphs, the FCIF encourages pilots who are choosing option 1 (drop the trip in conflict to receive the full overage on the extended trip) to make that election "as soon as possible". However, the FCIF clearly states the deadline for that decision is completion of the revised trip that was extended - i.e. 30 minutes after block in. I strongly suggest anyone considering option 1 wait until they have blocked in before making that choice.
The ALPA calendar used to make the same suggestion - choose ASAP and I followed it. I elected to drop the trip in conflict because the overage paid significantly more than the substitution pay for my next trip. After calling crew scheduling and choosing option 1, while I was still on the revised trip, it was revised again. The new revision basically returning it to its original version and footprint. Not only did I no longer have the overage from my revision, I no longer had my next trip and was ineligible for SUB as well since I had dropped it.
Of course the schedulers want you to make your choice between option 1 and 2 ASAP because that makes their job easier. I offer my cautionary tale as one reason to take your time and make the choice after your trip. I also suggest forwarding that FCIF to your personal email for future reference. In my opinion, it does a better job than the current ALPA calendar in clarifying your options and is certainly easier than flipping back and forth between sections 4 and 25 of the contract. Also, some of the details like the 30 minute after block-in deadline are not specifically delineated in the contract. The ALPA calendar is not completely clear on this situation either and appears to only offer the 30-minute post-block in deadline to a reserve pilot.
04-14-2019, 03:00 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, an FCIF from 1999 was re-issued today clarifying the three options available if your current trip is extended, creating a conflict with a subsequent trip. One can lose out on some serious dollars if they make the wrong choice depending on the situation. But I'm not trying to help with what you decide, I'm posting to talk about WHEN you make your choice.
In two different paragraphs, the FCIF encourages pilots who are choosing option 1 (drop the trip in conflict to receive the full overage on the extended trip) to make that election "as soon as possible". However, the FCIF clearly states the deadline for that decision is completion of the revised trip that was extended - i.e. 30 minutes after block in. I strongly suggest anyone considering option 1 wait until they have blocked in before making that choice.
The ALPA calendar used to make the same suggestion - choose ASAP and I followed it. I elected to drop the trip in conflict because the overage paid significantly more than the substitution pay for my next trip. After calling crew scheduling and choosing option 1, while I was still on the revised trip, it was revised again. The new revision basically returning it to its original version and footprint. Not only did I no longer have the overage from my revision, I no longer had my next trip and was ineligible for SUB as well since I had dropped it.
Of course the schedulers want you to make your choice between option 1 and 2 ASAP because that makes their job easier. I offer my cautionary tale as one reason to take your time and make the choice after your trip. I also suggest forwarding that FCIF to your personal email for future reference. In my opinion, it does a better job than the current ALPA calendar in clarifying your options and is certainly easier than flipping back and forth between sections 4 and 25 of the contract. Also, some of the details like the 30 minute after block-in deadline are not specifically delineated in the contract. The ALPA calendar is not completely clear on this situation either and appears to only offer the 30-minute post-block in deadline to a reserve pilot.
In two different paragraphs, the FCIF encourages pilots who are choosing option 1 (drop the trip in conflict to receive the full overage on the extended trip) to make that election "as soon as possible". However, the FCIF clearly states the deadline for that decision is completion of the revised trip that was extended - i.e. 30 minutes after block in. I strongly suggest anyone considering option 1 wait until they have blocked in before making that choice.
The ALPA calendar used to make the same suggestion - choose ASAP and I followed it. I elected to drop the trip in conflict because the overage paid significantly more than the substitution pay for my next trip. After calling crew scheduling and choosing option 1, while I was still on the revised trip, it was revised again. The new revision basically returning it to its original version and footprint. Not only did I no longer have the overage from my revision, I no longer had my next trip and was ineligible for SUB as well since I had dropped it.
Of course the schedulers want you to make your choice between option 1 and 2 ASAP because that makes their job easier. I offer my cautionary tale as one reason to take your time and make the choice after your trip. I also suggest forwarding that FCIF to your personal email for future reference. In my opinion, it does a better job than the current ALPA calendar in clarifying your options and is certainly easier than flipping back and forth between sections 4 and 25 of the contract. Also, some of the details like the 30 minute after block-in deadline are not specifically delineated in the contract. The ALPA calendar is not completely clear on this situation either and appears to only offer the 30-minute post-block in deadline to a reserve pilot.
04-14-2019, 04:21 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by harvick4
Why would anyone drop their trip straight up instead of electing OTP? Maybe I'm missing something.
04-14-2019, 04:33 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by harvick4
Why would anyone drop their trip straight up instead of electing OTP? Maybe I'm missing something.
In my case, I was done flying for the month when I finished the extended trip, so no OTP then. I was going to training for the following ~3 months and wasn’t going to be able to use OTP. If that wasn’t the best choice, educate me, I’m all ears. Thanks.
04-14-2019, 06:05 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by pinseeker
Because, if you drop the trip, you get paid 150% for the first 12 hours of extra pay and 200% for any hours after that. If you elect substitution, you get 100% pay for all hours that the original trip extends into the next trip(s). It all depends on how long the original trip gets extended, hence the suggestion to wait until you block in to make the final decision so you aren't leaving money on the table.
Again, why would you just drop your trip? Only reason is you don't want the negative OTP hours 3 months later.
04-14-2019, 06:12 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
I realize OTP will probably be many pilot’s choice in this scenario, but I didn’t want to offer advice about what to choose. There are enough nuances and situation specific variables that I didn’t feel qualified to offer definitive advice one way or the other. If someone else has the capability feel free.
In my case, I was done flying for the month when I finished the extended trip, so no OTP then. I was going to training for the following ~3 months and wasn’t going to be able to use OTP. If that wasn’t the best choice, educate me, I’m all ears. Thanks.
In my case, I was done flying for the month when I finished the extended trip, so no OTP then. I was going to training for the following ~3 months and wasn’t going to be able to use OTP. If that wasn’t the best choice, educate me, I’m all ears. Thanks.
If you were not going to be able to pick up any flying in the next 3 months then it's a wash.
But if you were going to training for say upgrade. You could have selected OTP, for X hours. And if you finished upgrade in less then 3 months used those X OTP hours at your new Capt rate at 125%. 3 months after selecting OTP, they would deduct X hours at your FO rate. If that is too confusing, thank ALPA.
04-14-2019, 07:06 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by harvick4
You were done for the month so no OTP? I don't understand that part.
Originally Posted by harvick4
If you were not going to be able to pick up any flying in the next 3 months then it's a wash.
Just for OTP education, is it correct to say that you get pay protected for the trip that gets dropped at 100%. Then, when you use your OTP hours at some point in the future, you technically earn the extra 25% resulting in the advertised 125% pay? I’ve never been clear on how the OTP pay really happens.
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