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Old 05-08-2019, 05:09 PM   #1  
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Default New Hire ALPA Grievance

Help me understand...why is someone mad about FDA seniority numbers?
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:06 PM   #2  
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I heard a story about a new hire who got hired in the Monday group for the MD-11.

Then another group was hired Tuesday, and someone got to pick the 777.

So the MD guy was complaining that he didn't get to bid the 777.

Never mind that I didn't see the right seat of a wide body until year 8, these guys are complaining about which wide body seat they get paid for in year one.

I'm sorry, I have no compassion for them. They are spoiled, and don't appreciate what they have gotten.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:10 PM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightflyer View Post
I heard a story about a new hire who got hired in the Monday group for the MD-11.

Then another group was hired Tuesday, and someone got to pick the 777.

So the MD guy was complaining that he didn't get to bid the 777.

Never mind that I didn't see the right seat of a wide body until year 8, these guys are complaining about which wide body seat they get paid for in year one.

I'm sorry, I have no compassion for them. They are spoiled, and don't appreciate what they have gotten.
As you were waiting for 8 years were there hundreds of pilots junior to you being put into a position you wanted to bid?

-UA
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:34 PM   #4  
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Well that's jacked up. One thing I've learned in a few years I've been here is I can't really complain to those senior to me. You guys were in the back of a 72 for 5+ years on RA getting called every night. No thanks.

How does that compare with my widebody life from day 1? I think it doesn't. Believe me, I'm not placating you pre-geriatrics in the left seat. I don't know if I could have survived FedEx prior to the postal contract.

But today's life is...preeeeeety great! Now back on topic...these damned new hire millennials need to get off my lawn! AMMIRITE?!
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:59 PM   #5  
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From what I read in the grievance, it seems like the complainant doesn't understand seniority. Taking a picture as a complete new hire class and showing up for the same Indoc events doesn't trump the fact that 5 of the 25 in that class started one day early. I've seen this technique used at another airline as well and it's done to comply with seniority, not abrogate it. The company wants to hand pick a few pilots in a class to train on a particular aircraft, they need to establish their seniority to support that - hence the early arrival.
Next time, the company will just call the 5 a different class to avoid any problems with semantics. Frankly, I'm surprised ALPA is supporting this one. It'll run it's course, use some of our dues money and in the end, they'll just hand the guy his coloring book and crayons and life will go on.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:23 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude View Post
As you were waiting for 8 years were there hundreds of pilots junior to you being put into a position you wanted to bid?

-UA
Actually, during age 65, 30 people junior to me were excessed into the seat I wanted to bid, so, yes. I went to Alpa for relief, and they said, "too bad, you should have bid it when you had the chance". That chance was the bid just prior to the age change, and I thought, "I'll wait one more bid", then age 65 hit. Had I known, I would have bid it.

The people in charge did not care about the abrogation of my seniority, they only cared about getting their over 60 buddies back in the left seat. The company and the union manipulated the bids to do just that. If we had not had agency shop, 50% of the FO's would have quit in protest.

The manipulation and the 30 people junior to me in my Captain's seat cost me easily $500,000 over 5 years.

This is when I really understood that Alpa is run by the people in power and their friends, and they all operate on the "I've got mine" principle.

Last edited by Nightflyer; 05-08-2019 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:28 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
From what I read in the grievance, it seems like the complainant doesn't understand seniority. Taking a picture as a complete new hire class and showing up for the same Indoc events doesn't trump the fact that 5 of the 25 in that class started one day early. I've seen this technique used at another airline as well and it's done to comply with seniority, not abrogate it. The company wants to hand pick a few pilots in a class to train on a particular aircraft, they need to establish their seniority to support that - hence the early arrival.
Next time, the company will just call the 5 a different class to avoid any problems with semantics. Frankly, I'm surprised ALPA is supporting this one. It'll run it's course, use some of our dues money and in the end, they'll just hand the guy his coloring book and crayons and life will go on.
I predict we will lose yet another grievance, and waste money doing it at the same time.
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:13 PM   #8  
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We need the definition of "new hire class" to answer this grievance. The whole point of FDA and MD guys coming in the day before is to give them the advantage of a higher seniority number because they either chose to go FDA or they didn't have a choice and were placed into the MD. But in either case, they are all melded together the next day in the same indoc class, but they letter states the "same new hire class". Well, I suppose its the same class?, I dont know what the correct definition of that is, but either way, their start date is NOT the same as the rest.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:08 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123456 View Post
We need the definition of "new hire class" to answer this grievance.
Why? All one needs to do is look at the seniority list. Who has the earlier DOH and therefore senior by one day and a few numbers?

Why should this involve a complex solution when it's about as simple as it gets. The complainant should lose this grievance because it goes counter to the basics of seniority.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:20 PM   #10  
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The contract language listed in the grievance says seniority number based on date of hire. Doesn’t say anything about new hire class. Do the people going to the MD or FDA have a different date of hire listed on their badge and records? Pretty simple to figure out. We’ll lose this one.
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