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Kronan's Jedi mind control

Old 12-09-2019, 08:27 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by MEMA300 View Post
This needs to be done before they slowly pick away at all the fat in our contract. VACA, Bidding on schedules etc...

Solidarity??? LMFAO. We cant even get guys to not sell back vaca or not deviate etc etc etc. during any CBA negotiations.

We really shouldn’t be harping on pilots doing things that are contractually allowed. If we don’t want pilots doing these things, we need to negotiate language stating that. I believe other airlines have that sort of language.

Also, this notion that it’s inevitable that management will pick away fat in our contract should stop. Otherwise it continues to be a self perpetuating prophecy.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:36 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by MEMA300
btw Ups has our old A-plan.
FDX's "old A-plan" had a $4k per YOS (for anybody who ever flew a single revenue leg as a Captain) Flat Dollar Amount benefit up to a max of 30YOS, which increases to $4100/YOS on 1 Jan 2020 and to $4200/YOS on 1 Jan 2021?
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:07 AM
  #13  
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Could be mistaken,
but think UPS FDA amount stays at $4k until the increase to $4.2.

And, let's not forget that should someone wind up retiring as an FO only, FDA amount is $3.2k.

So, should fortune not smile, a career UPS FO's pension would be $80k.
Would be hard for me to imagine a scenario where a career FedEx FO doesn't greatly exceed that
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
Could be mistaken,
but think UPS FDA amount stays at $4k until the increase to $4.2.
Yes, you are mistaken.

And, let's not forget that should someone wind up retiring as an FO only, FDA amount is $3.2k.

So, should fortune not smile, a career UPS FO's pension would be $80k.
Max YOS toward our defined benefit is 30, whereas FedEx is 25.

That said, flying 25 years at UPS and never upgrading to CA would be a choice, especially as the junior CA on our last bid went to people with less than 4.5 years on property. Get released to the line, fly a single turn as Captain, and you are entitled to a Captain FDA benefit.

Your point is valid, though, that FDX career FOs who never check out as Captains would have a more lucrative defined benefit under your 2% FAE than our FDA.

Lots of ways to improve retirement benefits that don't involve a non-bankruptcy, pilot-ratified retirement B-Scale that introduces a natural and significant division point in your pilot group.

Your negotiations, not ours...but none of us bargain in a vacuum.
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
FDX's "old A-plan" had a $4k per YOS (for anybody who ever flew a single revenue leg as a Captain) Flat Dollar Amount benefit up to a max of 30YOS, which increases to $4100/YOS on 1 Jan 2020 and to $4200/YOS on 1 Jan 2021?
Is your FDA insured by the PBGC or is it the 1% A-Plan?
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 View Post
Is your FDA insured by the PBGC or is it the 1% A-Plan?
Honestly, I am not sure.

I do know there are IRS and ERISA differences between a FAE and FDA benefit, and the FDA has to be renegotiated every CBA because of that.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
Honestly, I am not sure.

I do know there are IRS and ERISA differences between a FAE and FDA benefit, and the FDA has to be renegotiated every CBA because of that.
It doesn't really matter. PBGC insurance is a huge haircut regardless.
If UPS went under and surrendered their Pension trust, 25 year UPS Capt's 105k Pension (I'm assuming the FDA wins pretty much every Pension calculation) would be reduced to:
60-$43.7/39.4k
61-$48.4/43.6
62-$53.2/47.9
63-$57.9/52.1
64-$62.6/56.4
65-$67.3/60.6

Straight life\50% Joint life.

Where it likely Does matter, is in the cost to provide it if there truly are significant differences in ERISA rules\PBGC Premiums. I have read conjecture that there isn't as big of an impact in a market downturn with a FDA override, since it's a contract to contract figure that could-in theory-be eliminated in the next contract.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:43 PM
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I've also heard that "in between" CBA's the FDA goes away, which I find hard to believe since under RLA contracts never expire, they just become amendable.

But I could be mistaken, just as I was about the back to back increases in the FDA amounts
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
I've also heard that "in between" CBA's the FDA goes away, which I find hard to believe since under RLA contracts never expire, they just become amendable.

But I could be mistaken, just as I was about the back to back increases in the FDA amounts
It does turn into a pumpkin but not for several years after the amendable date. At least that is my understanding. My question does make a difference, if as I have been told they only cover one plan. I suspect, for a variety of reasons, the FDA is not part of the PBGC.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
Could be mistaken,
but think UPS FDA amount stays at $4k until the increase to $4.2.

And, let's not forget that should someone wind up retiring as an FO only, FDA amount is $3.2k.

So, should fortune not smile, a career UPS FO's pension would be $80k.
Would be hard for me to imagine a scenario where a career FedEx FO doesn't greatly exceed that
I never get why people post inaccurate information. To put down a “competitor”? A peer? To chest pump and make themselves look better?

Our DB flat dollar amount goes out to 2026, yes, 5 years beyond amendable date (we will have a new CBA by then, this was done to protect against protracted negotiations). It goes up to $4,200 x years of service. And Boiler is right, it only takes ONE segment as a fully qualified Captain to obtain the $4,200 amount. Whoever does not retire with the Captain FDA is BY CHOICE!! Because EVERY pilot that is retiring soon can be a Captain.

Why doesn’t Kronan post the full picture. The ABSOLUTE MAX pension at Fedex is $130k, after 25 years. UPS is $126k after 30. What Kronan omits (advantageously) is the DC of 12% vs 8% (going to 9% for Fedex). And, UPS pension was negotiated and now tied to senior management’s pension plan, meaning they would have to cancel/terminate/reduce theirs in order to affect ours.

Again, both great benefits, why put down one or the other? To gloat? Chest pump?
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