Why Do We Complain So Much
02-17-2020, 04:54 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
Let me try to add some clarity to my post.
For starters I understand that we have issues in our CBA that need to be changed. Even after our next contract this will be true. We always want better and its impossible to foresee every rabbit hole a contract may have. Did we "give some things up" in contract 2015? Yes we did. We also kept a lot of great things such as pension, work rules, B plan increases, etc. We also fended off PBS.
Corona virus: UPS and FedEx both operate about 200ish flight a week into/out of China. The big difference is we have a domicile in HKG which puts our crews and their families closer to the threat. I also agree that this OIM isn't perfect but its a long shoot better than the other agreement that was already agreed to by those at Brown. I agree that maybe 150% for all HKG pilots is warranted. If you were to add up the extra credit for touching China or laying over in China they are already about at 150% with the kickers. I thought people wanted the option to opt out and that's what we got like UPS but ours allows you to use many more banks to keep your pay. Also all our none HKG based pilots are getting kickers to fly China unlike the straight pay UPS pilots are getting. So if we have people saying I absolutely don't want to fly China but I also shouldn't have to use a bank (Vacation, MU, Sick) then how would we as a group be able to afford to strike? I hear a bunch of guys pound their chest about striking if needed to keep X,Y or Z but yet we have a huge group that cant or wont take a dime less of pay for what they perceive is a massive safety/threat issue. So if we get to the end of bargaining contract 2021 and are released to strike and the company is trying to implement PBS and abolish pension what is your confidence of our group to take less or no pay to hold the line on those items?
Maybe its Jetflyers and this site that has me spooled up but I also hear a lot of whining in AOC and the flight deck. I came from another major and it was not to this extent. Heck my old place is over 2 years into bargaining and I keep in regular contact with buds their and they are much more positive than what I hear from our group as a whole. They also have a social media sight and even on that its not nearly as negative. I talk to my rep regularly and respect the work they are doing.
The big point I am making is that we have to stop the constant bickering and infighting and get our group together. We have a great contract and need to make it even better for everyone and we will never get it done if we keep acting the way we are as a group.
For starters I understand that we have issues in our CBA that need to be changed. Even after our next contract this will be true. We always want better and its impossible to foresee every rabbit hole a contract may have. Did we "give some things up" in contract 2015? Yes we did. We also kept a lot of great things such as pension, work rules, B plan increases, etc. We also fended off PBS.
Corona virus: UPS and FedEx both operate about 200ish flight a week into/out of China. The big difference is we have a domicile in HKG which puts our crews and their families closer to the threat. I also agree that this OIM isn't perfect but its a long shoot better than the other agreement that was already agreed to by those at Brown. I agree that maybe 150% for all HKG pilots is warranted. If you were to add up the extra credit for touching China or laying over in China they are already about at 150% with the kickers. I thought people wanted the option to opt out and that's what we got like UPS but ours allows you to use many more banks to keep your pay. Also all our none HKG based pilots are getting kickers to fly China unlike the straight pay UPS pilots are getting. So if we have people saying I absolutely don't want to fly China but I also shouldn't have to use a bank (Vacation, MU, Sick) then how would we as a group be able to afford to strike? I hear a bunch of guys pound their chest about striking if needed to keep X,Y or Z but yet we have a huge group that cant or wont take a dime less of pay for what they perceive is a massive safety/threat issue. So if we get to the end of bargaining contract 2021 and are released to strike and the company is trying to implement PBS and abolish pension what is your confidence of our group to take less or no pay to hold the line on those items?
Maybe its Jetflyers and this site that has me spooled up but I also hear a lot of whining in AOC and the flight deck. I came from another major and it was not to this extent. Heck my old place is over 2 years into bargaining and I keep in regular contact with buds their and they are much more positive than what I hear from our group as a whole. They also have a social media sight and even on that its not nearly as negative. I talk to my rep regularly and respect the work they are doing.
The big point I am making is that we have to stop the constant bickering and infighting and get our group together. We have a great contract and need to make it even better for everyone and we will never get it done if we keep acting the way we are as a group.
02-18-2020, 03:25 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,376
That's my major problem with this. We should absolutely be able to use the DSA account.
The company does not want us to use it so they can pay us 50 cents on the dollar when we retire, IF we can jump through all the hoops to even get that. We earned those hours. We should be able to use them as we see fit.
The company does not want us to use it so they can pay us 50 cents on the dollar when we retire, IF we can jump through all the hoops to even get that. We earned those hours. We should be able to use them as we see fit.
02-18-2020, 05:50 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by busdriver12
I thought their only pilot hubs were ANC, MIA, ONT and SDF. Are they basing pilots in China?
We have hubs in OAK, EWR, GSO, AFW
Indy was a longtime Hub until it became a mini-domicile
02-18-2020, 05:58 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Looking for "Confirm Engine Out" button
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
Whats wrong with our pilot group? Why do we bicker and complain so much? Just looking around at UPS forum and chatting with brown brothers and they are not nagging about their China LOA that they even realize is lagging behind ours.
This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?
This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?
02-18-2020, 07:33 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by kronan
Suggest learning HUB and Domiciles are different things.
We have hubs in OAK, EWR, GSO, AFW
Indy was a longtime Hub until it became a mini-domicile
We have hubs in OAK, EWR, GSO, AFW
Indy was a longtime Hub until it became a mini-domicile
02-20-2020, 11:59 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
Whats wrong with our pilot group? Why do we bicker and complain so much? Just looking around at UPS forum and chatting with brown brothers and they are not nagging about their China LOA that they even realize is lagging behind ours.
This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?
This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?
I wouldn’t equate “complaining” on social media as not being unified. It’s just a point of information to take into consideration. I would rather hear different perspectives from different demographics on what they feel could use improvement, especially going into negotiations. I would feel more comfortable with that than hearing NO “complaining” going into section 6. None of this means any of us are unhappy pilots. We should always be striving for better, even if we are industry leaders.
02-25-2020, 07:38 AM
#28
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
And as far as pilots biatching....get used to it. We are required to do things right, and when others....scheduling, TSA, the union, you name it, don't do things right we biatch. It makes us feel good! It doesn't mean we don't like our job, or FedEx.
03-01-2020, 08:27 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 50
Complaining
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
Whats wrong with our pilot group? Why do we bicker and complain so much? Just looking around at UPS forum and chatting with brown brothers and they are not nagging about their China LOA that they even realize is lagging behind ours.
This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?
This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?
04-05-2020, 06:59 PM
#30
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by BLOB
Did you really start a post about FEDEX pilots whining by whining about FEDEX pilots? Brilliant.
You can take your positive mental attitude and desire to change everything to suit your desires to UPS. They’re hiring. You can get hired straight into management so you can immediately tell them all how to run an airline.
You can take your positive mental attitude and desire to change everything to suit your desires to UPS. They’re hiring. You can get hired straight into management so you can immediately tell them all how to run an airline.
LOL...............
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