Why Do We Complain So Much
 

Whats wrong with our pilot group? Why do we bicker and complain so much? Just looking around at UPS forum and chatting with brown brothers and they are not nagging about their China LOA that they even realize is lagging behind ours.

This is not the first issue to bring me to these questions. It seems like a culture problem. Most from the outside look at FedEx as an industry leader in so many areas, but yet we complain like a bunch of old hens. What do we do to stop the complaining and become a unified voice for CBA 2021?

Just stop listening to the same few voices on this forum or any other form of social media. Most of us are pretty pleasant.

Because we see people like you trying to ruin what used to be such a great deal. C2015 was an epic failure. And now trying to ruin quality of life with FAR117 because it's "science based."

You made your $320k/year flying extra, the same argument you tried to use against me for FAR117. Pot meet kettle.

If you people keep getting your way this good deal is going to turn into just another flying job.

Ive never seen a group of people with so much lack of prospective, it’s nauseating.

As a datapoint UPS doesn’t have a domicile in Asia with pilots and families dealing with this outbreak directly. Apples and oranges when it comes to this situation.

They fly the same exact amount of flights to China. I think Fedex pilots are in general just habitual whiners - always have been. It's not just the new guys it's part of the chore here - for sure online. I'd say when you talk to other friends at other carriers this bears true. I remember after the C2015 CBA I had Delta friends call up and say wow, we were able to keep our pension and not go into PBS and how incredible that was. We just have a very different group of pilots here - a lot of guys that would likely be selling hot dogs at the local 7-11 but hit the gold mine with a job at Fedex and for some reason they are expecting a lot more.

Exactly. I can't imagine bragging about our China LOA, good grief. It's a terrible deal, and it's likely some people will do far worse under the LOA than if nothing had been negotiated at all.

I am hoping, however, that both the union and the company see it as just a starting point, and will improve upon it in short order. Otherwise, it seems likely that they will run out of pilots to cover the trips, with everyone ending up in unpaid quarantine, or deciding to max utilize their vacation. I feel bad for the newly hired pilots who have little vacation to use.

Does UPS have 100+ Pilot families living in HKG? Do you have any data to support your claim that UPS flies the “exact same amount of flights into China”? My observation has been that UPS does not have anything in Asia that compares to our CAN hub.

My experience here is that there is a difference in whining and bringing light to contractual deficiencies or areas of desired improvement.

This situation is different as each pilot is tasked with their own level of risk assessment. It’s a discussion that is happening around the negotiating table no doubt but also happening with each pilot around the dinner table. There has to be a balance of personal risk tolerance and personal financial responsibility to our own families.

Your loathing of our co-workers is an unfortunate voice in the room though you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.

For the record I have spoken with my rep and they welcome feedback and provide great intel. My rep indicated an acute awareness of the needs of other segments of our group (primarily HKG pilots) and we all support them. At least most of us support them.

edit:

This article, though not scientific, would suggest that Purple flies 10% more flights in and out of China than Brown. That data in addition to the fact that as the applies to pilots there is no Brown domicile in Asia.

https://dailymemphian.com/article/10...na-coronavirus

Really? So you still think keeping the pension and avoiding PBS is was a gain for us? In that case we will never see any improvements in future contracts.

Complaining about why our pilot group complains so much.... IRONY

Also with the “Looking around the UPS forums” as my data point.. comical at best..

Did you really start a post about FEDEX pilots whining by whining about FEDEX pilots? Brilliant.

You can take your positive mental attitude and desire to change everything to suit your desires to UPS. They’re hiring. You can get hired straight into management so you can immediately tell them all how to run an airline.

UPS has a hub in China.
UPS fact sheet said 200 flights a week when I searched for it.
FDX China verbiage said 220 flights a week.

The best scenario will be for Fedex to leverage from our contract extension, obtain positive gains, and then we leverage of this, and so forth.

The point being, the best situation is we all help lift each other up.

Well said. And true.

I thought their only pilot hubs were ANC, MIA, ONT and SDF. Are they basing pilots in China?

Stay off this forum. Most guys aren't complaining. And *****ing is just part of what pilots do. Complaining to family or friends about a job they don't understand is pointless so we complain to our fellow pilots who know what we are talking about. *****ing about work is is just a social convention. Most guys are pretty happy.

Who are you flying with? Most guys aren't whiners but are very happy to be at Fedex. Complaining about work is what people do. I haven't flown with anyone in years who isn't very happy to be at FedEx.

Let me try to add some clarity to my post.

For starters I understand that we have issues in our CBA that need to be changed. Even after our next contract this will be true. We always want better and its impossible to foresee every rabbit hole a contract may have. Did we "give some things up" in contract 2015? Yes we did. We also kept a lot of great things such as pension, work rules, B plan increases, etc. We also fended off PBS.

Corona virus: UPS and FedEx both operate about 200ish flight a week into/out of China. The big difference is we have a domicile in HKG which puts our crews and their families closer to the threat. I also agree that this OIM isn't perfect but its a long shoot better than the other agreement that was already agreed to by those at Brown. I agree that maybe 150% for all HKG pilots is warranted. If you were to add up the extra credit for touching China or laying over in China they are already about at 150% with the kickers. I thought people wanted the option to opt out and that's what we got like UPS but ours allows you to use many more banks to keep your pay. Also all our none HKG based pilots are getting kickers to fly China unlike the straight pay UPS pilots are getting. So if we have people saying I absolutely don't want to fly China but I also shouldn't have to use a bank (Vacation, MU, Sick) then how would we as a group be able to afford to strike? I hear a bunch of guys pound their chest about striking if needed to keep X,Y or Z but yet we have a huge group that cant or wont take a dime less of pay for what they perceive is a massive safety/threat issue. So if we get to the end of bargaining contract 2021 and are released to strike and the company is trying to implement PBS and abolish pension what is your confidence of our group to take less or no pay to hold the line on those items?

Maybe its Jetflyers and this site that has me spooled up but I also hear a lot of whining in AOC and the flight deck. I came from another major and it was not to this extent. Heck my old place is over 2 years into bargaining and I keep in regular contact with buds their and they are much more positive than what I hear from our group as a whole. They also have a social media sight and even on that its not nearly as negative. I talk to my rep regularly and respect the work they are doing.

The big point I am making is that we have to stop the constant bickering and infighting and get our group together. We have a great contract and need to make it even better for everyone and we will never get it done if we keep acting the way we are as a group.

Here's how to make your life better. Stay off APC and Jetfliers. Two sites of guys who just complain. You do understand that of the 4,800 pilot employed by FedEx, about 2 % actually post on either forum. Again, no one is whining. Guys ***** and *****, thats life at any job.

Noworkallplay:

1) Are you on an airplane that requires you to fly to China?

2) We will never be allowed to strike. They will never release us for self-help. It just won't happen.

Is it ok to complain you cannot tap your DSA bank instead of Vacation bank if you don’t want to go to China?

That's my major problem with this. We should absolutely be able to use the DSA account.

The company does not want us to use it so they can pay us 50 cents on the dollar when we retire, IF we can jump through all the hoops to even get that. We earned those hours. We should be able to use them as we see fit.

Suggest learning HUB and Domiciles are different things.

We have hubs in OAK, EWR, GSO, AFW
Indy was a longtime Hub until it became a mini-domicile

Stop b**ching and get involved. When I worked for the FedEx ALPA Safety committee, I heard the same things you’re hearing today and you’ll hear 50 years from now, unless the whiners get off their butts and volunteer to make our union as great as it can be. Circa 1997 we were able to get ASAP & FOQA established on property in their infintisimal stages. And look where they are today. You’re always going to come up against the lawyers, so fight fire with fire. Again, get involved.

Certainly. However, comparing the UPS agreement with the FedEx one is not particularly relevant when we have pilots actually based in HKG, and they do not, doesn't really matter whether they have a hub.

Maybe the OP title should be, "Why do you complain so much."

I wouldn’t equate “complaining” on social media as not being unified. It’s just a point of information to take into consideration. I would rather hear different perspectives from different demographics on what they feel could use improvement, especially going into negotiations. I would feel more comfortable with that than hearing NO “complaining” going into section 6. None of this means any of us are unhappy pilots. We should always be striving for better, even if we are industry leaders.

And as far as pilots biatching....get used to it. We are required to do things right, and when others....scheduling, TSA, the union, you name it, don't do things right we biatch. It makes us feel good! It doesn't mean we don't like our job, or FedEx.

Complaining
 

If the company treated the customers like they have treated employees .....................

LOL...............