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Originally Posted by StillFlying
(Post 3010094)
Do you understand that the union's negotiating entering line in the sand was a floor benefit of 2%*5 FAE*YOS (so that no one would be left with less than what they would have under the current A plan) and that at the point you retire, you could have locked in a fixed amount to keep the check constant or continue to let it flex with the market? Without the baseline, I agree, the VB would have gone absolutely no where with our group.
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Yes, quite aware but our short union history has demonstrated time and time again an inability to write ironclad contractual language that actually delivers our desired intent and/or forces compliance by the Company. Our losses on intent versus actuality are numerous. This forum is full of examples so I won't cite them again. I can be miffed at losing first class seats but the adjective to describe my loss of an expected floor in my retirement would be far more harsh than miffed....and far more consequential. Put another way, I don't trust our guys, be they lawyers in Virginia or Kirby Parkway or well-intentioned volunteers and negotiators, to deliver a guarantee that's guaranteed.
Again, no pilot retiree in the history of our A Plan has EVER missed a retirement check or had to settle for anything less than the full amount. |
Originally Posted by StillFlying
(Post 3010094)
Do you understand that the union's negotiating entering line in the sand was a floor benefit of 2%*5 FAE*YOS (so that no one would be left with less than what they would have under the current A plan) and that at the point you retire, you could have locked in a fixed amount to keep the check constant or continue to let it flex with the market? Without the baseline, I agree, the VB would have gone absolutely no where with our group.
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Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
(Post 3010156)
They don’t care what the union “says”. They just think what the union “says” are lies.
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Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
(Post 3010156)
They don’t care what the union “says”. They just think what the union “says” are lies.
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"Oh in this market the VB Pension would not last." Absolutely False. This was debunked during the initial meetings on this plan. I actually went to 2 of them. How many did the complainers go to? They ran a modeled simulation of the 3 worst periods in the market the worst being the 3 years in the early 70's. It survived just fine. Not only that they explained the stabilization features to make sure this did stay funded even in a bad market out of the gate. Bunch of agenda pushing blow hards saying completely none factual things. We as a group have chastised the union for not "hiring outside attorneys and resources". In this case they did and some of our pilots still think they are smarter then people who do this for a living. Half of our pilots think they can be doctors, attorneys, engineers better than those who do it every day for a living. This is like a Dr. with a PPL coming onto your flight deck and coaching you on how to fly your airplane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_K3B_Xbws |
Originally Posted by USMCFDX
(Post 3010192)
Professional pilots are not professional negotiators.
It’s protected by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). Can’t be fully lost due to BK. The Union has already stated that no one will receive less than what they would have received under the current A plan. People that may have been “left behind” will be plussed up. The current dip has already been planned for through a stabilization reserve or floor plan. As previously mentioned, the Cheiron looked at every time period between 1929 and 2018. At no point did the VBD play second fiddle to our current A plan. |
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
(Post 3010208)
"Oh in this market the VB Pension would not last." Absolutely False. This was debunked during the initial meetings on this plan. I actually went to 2 of them. How many did the complainers go to? They ran a modeled simulation of the 3 worst periods in the market the worst being the 3 years in the early 70's. It survived just fine. Not only that they explained the stabilization features to make sure this did stay funded even in a bad market out of the gate. Bunch of agenda pushing blow hards saying completely none factual things. We as a group have chastised the union for not "hiring outside attorneys and resources". In this case they did and some of our pilots still think they are smarter then people who do this for a living. Half of our pilots think they can be doctors, attorneys, engineers better than those who do it every day for a living. This is like a Dr. with a PPL coming onto your flight deck and coaching you on how to fly your airplane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_K3B_Xbws |
Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
(Post 3010280)
The last DB retirement section from 1999 was not written by pilots and neither will this one be. Actual financial professionals designed this and it’s already in use by other companies. The specifics will be negotiated by finance professionals.
It’s protected by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). Can’t be fully lost due to BK. The Union has already stated that no one will receive less than what they would have received under the current A plan. People that may have been “left behind” will be plussed up. The current dip has already been planned for through a stabilization reserve or floor plan. As previously mentioned, the Cheiron looked at every time period between 1929 and 2018. At no point did the VBD play second fiddle to our current A plan. |
The union have yet to answer my simple question about guys who could go out on LTD and can return, get their high 5 and still walk away with the A Plan. How will that be addressed in the VB Plan?
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