Originally Posted by Nightflyer (Post 3016926)

The solution to all of this is a national seniority list.

You are awarded your lifetime seniority number on the day you acquire your ATP.

Now you can change airlines as you please, and would be paid according to your seniority.

This would prevent the airlines from taking advantage of us, we could leave at will if we felt we had a bad contract, and take our seniority elsewhere. In this way, we would be more like free agents, and could sell our skills to the highest bidder.

You can discuss that while I go work.

Originally Posted by fightandflight (Post 3016913)

In my opinion this notion that someone can't have two seniority numbers because it somehow shows they don't "really want to work" at FedEx is wrong. The bottom line is when they made the decision to go to an airline they chose one that happened to furlough them. They earned the job at FedEx and for all we know they will go there, love it, and stay forever. If they happen to get recalled and liked their first choice better, they should have the right to go back to their first choice. It is easy to look at this from the perspective of a FedEx pilot and only want true believers, but are you telling me that if you got furloughed and went to Frontier (for example) and hated it, you wouldn't want the right to go back to the job you earned at FedEx? No need to answer, just a thought experiment that is too easy to answer from the safety of not having to make the decision. They (the furloughed pilot) will always be one person filling one job and just because they got that job in front of someone that may not have even gotten hired anywhere else, that doesn't mean that person really wants to be at FedEx any more than them. By your logic, a furloughed pilot should not get a job ANYWHERE else, because they could be taking that bus driver or plumbing job from someone that "really" wants it. If the furloughed pilot leaves FedEx for another airline, the spot opens for the next person to earn. Bottom line, I understand the compassion in your opinion but I don't think that this is truly an ethical dilemma.

Originally Posted by BLOB (Post 3017301)

👎🏿💩👎🏿💩👎🏿💩👎🏿💩
Another suggestion endorsed by the crowd that got hired on an Age 60 timeline, could upgrade under that timeline, now gets to work to 65, will push for 70+ and now wants to go to other companies where the grass is greener and displace guys who get another 5 years as an FO. Won’t happen so not worth discussing but certainly is a “Semper I” idea.

Originally Posted by Stan446 (Post 3018024)

The point is the furloughed guy doesn't want to give up his job. He want's to get hired away from one of the major pax carriers. See if that works, an then when he can get recalled, never giving up his mainline seniority number, stealing a seniority number from his temp worker and basically fing everyone. And figure it out, there are now plumber seniority numbers.

And the dick the the other guy mentality goes on. What if it was you hoping to get a job to support your family while someone else held two spots. Try telling your kids why you have to move because someone holds two jobs.

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 3018310)

I think it boils down to actual intentions. Being furloughed sucks and when I got hired after my furlough from a major, I had absolutely no intention of going back to airline #1. I resigned and they still called when the time came and I told them TBNT. That's reality. I think in the current environment of pilot shortage, it's reasonable to assume that Airline X is still going to try to get their furloughees to come back no matter what letter they send to get hired elsewhere.
If a furloughed pilot comes to FedEx with a reasonable intention of making it a career, that's all one can ask. If they decide when the time comes that their former life suits them better, then it's a business decision.
The only problem I have is with the ones who are simply using FedEx as a placeholder until they can go back to mama. If they know they have no intention of staying, that's a pretty low move. Especially because it's very likely that they will taint the waters for every furloughee who comes after them looking to make a change after they realize the value and stability a cargo career offers when faced with yet another unexpected industry challenge.

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 3018310)

I think it boils down to actual intentions. Being furloughed sucks and when I got hired after my furlough from a major, I had absolutely no intention of going back to airline #1. I resigned and they still called when the time came and I told them TBNT. That's reality. I think in the current environment of pilot shortage, it's reasonable to assume that Airline X is still going to try to get their furloughees to come back no matter what letter they send to get hired elsewhere.
If a furloughed pilot comes to FedEx with a reasonable intention of making it a career, that's all one can ask. If they decide when the time comes that their former life suits them better, then it's a business decision.
The only problem I have is with the ones who are simply using FedEx as a placeholder until they can go back to mama. If they know they have no intention of staying, that's a pretty low move. Especially because it's very likely that they will taint the waters for every furloughee who comes after them looking to make a change after they realize the value and stability a cargo career offers when faced with yet another unexpected industry challenge.

Originally Posted by Sluggo_63 (Post 3018398)

Why is it okay for them to take a spot at a placeholder airline while waiting for their #1 then, but not now? Again, the way to not have new hires leave whether furloughed or not is to have a good enough workplace that they don't want to leave.

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay (Post 3018390)

Easy fix. Make them have skin in the game. Have them sign an agreement that if they do leave to go back to airline X they pay a certain portion of their training back. Been done many times in this industry. Now both sides have some level of commitment.

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay (Post 3018390)

Easy fix. Make them have skin in the game. Have them sign an agreement that if they do leave to go back to airline X they pay a certain portion of their training back. Been done many times in this industry. Now both sides have some level of commitment.