Originally Posted by kronan

UPS was 3% raises.

Originally Posted by kronan

Kind of interesting that you say you disagree with me about Peak 2015, and then say Nothing was going to happen in Peak 2015...that the planes were still going to fly. Which was my point, that Mgt said CBA was a Cost neutral (considering inflation) and Mgt said they had a plan to make it through Peak if it was voted down.

No, I wasn't one of the querulous voices at our quarterly meeting in August 2015. I was there and thought the question about whether we'd be allowed to strike for Peak 2015 was idiotic. (Remember this was pre-TA being finalized)
Just as I think it's idiotic arguing that we need to strike for TA 202X to show FedEx we mean business. Whether I like it or not (and I don't) FedEx is a proxy for the US Economy. Whether I like it or not (and I don't) We operate under RLA which is a huge disadvantage for us. All it takes is one party to request mediation, and once the Feds get involved, everything runs under Fed guidance. Negotiations meetings, Fed guy can say let's take the quarter off since we're not making much progress off and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. (Other than strike illegally, and an illegal strike means no Job protection. FedEx can replace all\s0me of us and there's not a damn thing we can do about it)

You never take the first deal.
Wonder if TA 2015 verbiage was the first deal offered by management. Since the NC took the first deal, astonished that it took so long.
UPS took the "first" deal.
Shoot, we took the "first" deal in 2006 and it was overwhelmingly popular. We took the "first" deal in 2011 and it was modestly popular.
Recent airline negotiation history has far more people taking the "first" deal than kicking it back to the curb.
SWA kicked one of theirs back, but that was what their Union recommended doing.
Delta kicked one back, but that was because the Delta MEC at the time wanted to modify the profit-sharing agreement in exchange for more guaranteed pay.

People say 2015 is a concessionary contract because we only got 3% pay raises and the slope between CBAs was less than 3%. Well, Delta's subsequent agreement was for 3% raises. SWA's was 3% raises. UPS was 3% raises.
And our raises included the 4% we just experienced last November, as well as an extra 1% to the B plan January 2016 and 2020.
So, effectively, every FO just working BLG got a 5% raise this year.

Well, Lie Flat. Boggles my mind that SL never friggin asked, or documented his remembered conversation, but we LOST that grievance because the Neutral guy agreed with the Company that following historic practices might mean FedEx would have to Chase First Class service on Scheduled flights....and, rolling Deviation bank. WTF-the paragraph that says our Deviation bank should be funded with the highest class of service available\authorized is theoretically funding a rolling Deviation bank. Pay no attention to the fact if you reduce the funding available for a deviation bank there's no actual rolling bank for that to fund.
Boggles the mind. But again, Grievances are part of RLA and again, the deck is stacked against us.

Back in 2015 someone took the time to create a website, Purpleta.com. And there was another website called hiddenarrow.com. Those websites had all of the pros\cons. One of them even used a simplified Thumbs Up\Thumbs Down section by section in the TA.
Back then, I counted the Thumbs Up versus Thumbs Down, and there were slightly more Thumbs Up than Down.

There are many things Mgt was doing in 2014/15 that they rarely do now. Monday DHs out to ABC were being modified to Monday DHs out to BCD, doesn't happen now because changing that single day layover triggers an extra 3CHs.
There was an increasing number of 3 legs during the critical duty period, doesn't happen now because that automatically pays a disruption for every leg over 2.
There was an increasing number of extended turns, think MEM-ICT-FAT (see Feb 75 sucky\crappy pairing) with a 2 hour turn in Wichita. Rarely happens now because the disruption for that pays automatically (Important safety tip, doesn't pay just because it's built that way. Has to operate that way)
Disruption pay was expanded to more pay codes.
You can drop trips you don't hold guarantee for now (think MUS or MUV)

Shoot, consider the topic of this post. Go back and look at the Settlement agreement for 4A2B and compare that with the current verbiage.
Current verbiage spreads the pain across everyone. Limits carryover. Limits M\U to a positive bank balance. Limits the ability to Plus up your BLG every month.
In 2014 I flew with an FO who was *****ing about why the CBA was taking so long. Also commented that why was he limited to going negative 6, when there are plenty of one day trips that pay in excess of that. Should be 7 or 8 negative. Naively, I didn't know the negative balance reset to 0 every month. So, yes, this gent was flying an extra 18CHs every month and then complaining about the pace of negotiations.

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay

Stop giving factual information and using critical thinking. You need to use open ended statements with no facts. Don't point out the gains and good things just point out the things you deem are “terrible”. On an honest not ive always enjoyed your informed posts that carry facts unlike many blowhards on this site.

Originally Posted by golfandfly

Thought you might be on other airline boards telling them how much money you make...

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay

Once again a post from you with no good info just troll bs. Nothing new from you flame bait. You must have realized you are one of those blowhards.

Originally Posted by golfandfly

Blowhard? I’d say you mastered it..

“I guess it depends who you are flying freight for. As a domestic knuckle dragger at Purple my schedule looks nothing like what you describe. When I was an FO I did very little night flying if any. In fact, as a guy who use to be at a “legacy”, I would never return to the 3-4 leg days of pax hauling with 3 hour sits at the terminal. Plus, I couldn't afford the pay cut.”

Domestic knuckle dragger? Wow, sounds impressive...

Originally Posted by CloudSailor

Agreed.

Unfortunately, and in some ways understandably, many can’t understand the pain of a furlough unless they’ve personally experienced it.

Originally Posted by pipe

You know who else can't understand the pain of a furlough? The company. 4a2b has never been proven to have avoided a single furlough. I never believed that they wanted or needed to reduce crew force badly enough to incur the tremendous costs associated with the furlough and recall of pilots. 4a2b however, comes with tremendous cost to the (some) pilots, not so much to the company. It allows them to completely avoid realigning the company on the shoulders (wallets) of the pilots.

Pipe

Originally Posted by pipe

You know who else can't understand the pain of a furlough? The company. 4a2b has never been proven to have avoided a single furlough. I never believed that they wanted or needed to reduce crew force badly enough to incur the tremendous costs associated with the furlough and recall of pilots. 4a2b however, comes with tremendous cost to the (some) pilots, not so much to the company. It allows them to completely avoid realigning the company on the shoulders (wallets) of the pilots.

Pipe

Originally Posted by BLOB

The cost of realigning the crew force is not solely felt by the company. That junior captain that becomes an FO again, the WB capt or FO who becomes a NB captain or FO feels that pain. They get to endure a training cycle for a pay cut. There is more to gained by avoiding a furlough for those individuals as well as those who don’t end up on the street. And quite simply a guy who is senior enough to be unaffected by furlough at FedEx now forgets that 4a2b protected his job when he was junior. It’s just like insurance...just because it wasn’t used when he was junior doesn’t mean it wasn’t there (disclaimer: I don’t know what contract it was added but I know it’s been there quite a while). There’s nothing good about tough economic times but they too shall pass. Just try not to be the clown who advocates furloughing dudes at a union meeting.