Japan
 

I hear guys are still leaving the hotels in Japan.

Why is this?

Why do so many of our guys not follow the rules?

It may only make it worse for the rest of us. It could easily turn into room isolation.

Take Sydney for example.

Please think about others and the big picture and please just follow the rules.

It’s easy.

I'll take a stab at this...

We have to either stay in the room, or you can go to the gym, or go to the lobby to pick up your Uber Eats.

That's not much of a life for several days in a row. I didn't leave, but we should be getting the "hotel quarantine" pay for Japan and we aren't.

In the Swissotel you can also go to the 10th floor so you can share the virus with your buddies over a beer and pay the same high prices for room service. No thank you. The FedEx discount covers the delivery charge but that's about it.

There is nothing on the TV except CNN. You can only surf the internet for so long. I am running out of books to read.

Personally, I am ready to go somewhere else.

If I could only go across the street to a restaurant, my food would not be cold when I eat it.

Oh, and if you eat normal meals, your per diem won't cover half of it, and no, I am not on draft or volunteer.

If I have not answered all of your questions feel free to ask more.

Again, I did not violate the rules, and I am not saying that you should, but this sucks big time.

Why are you posting this on a public forum? Posting it publicly isnt going to fix the issue, and very well may escalate into an issue based on hearsay. How do you know its OUR guys/gals? Just because you see a guy wearing white new balances, jeans, and a Cessna t shirt doesn't make it our folk.

Could be worse... TPE is way, way worse in every respect. Makes KIX seem like a wonderful exotic getaway.

I agree though, I think we're all getting tired of this. Definitely not something that can go on indefinitely.

There are many places that are worse. Most of them come with $100 for your hotel bank.

Japan does not. The union should negotiate for full per diem in the next contract, instead of giving us nickel and dimes, like they always do.

Yes, other places are worse, but I didn't sign up to be confined to a building on a long layover either.

Wonder how Jim Stockdale, Robbie Risner, or Everett Alvarez would have handled the quarantine?

Kwitchyerbellyakin' and do what's asked of us to try and end this cr@p.

He asked a question. I answered it.

I knew someone would compare it to the POW experience.

That comparison is not even close, I understand that.

He wanted to know what people thought, and I gave him an answer.

I don't disagree with your sentiments. So much of this Covid overreaction is complete BS. IMO, you appear to have a bigger aversion than most to spending $$ on food. What's a "normal meal"? Don't get me wrong, I'll take full gubmint rate per diem but I won't hold my breath on that.

You clearly need to develop the appropriate appreciation for 10-year old episodes of the Mentalist and NCIS. Come-on! :D

Some general comments not directed at anyone particular:
I'd love to see some kind of premium pay to account for the extra a$$-pain we're still experiencing in many international locations. But, the bottom line is that most foreign governments are still requiring quarantine for new arrivals. Our employer is bypassing that requirement by agreeing to isolate us while we stay in their country. The fact that the available food is expensive or the TV choices suck doesn't really answer the OP's question. There is no valid reason for violating the restrictions agreed upon by accepting the trip and processing into Japan.

Let's assume for a moment that the restrictions are valid and cannot be lifted. If you believe the news, the US cases are on the rise which probably makes it even more difficult to convince a foreign government to cut us some slack. The only thing that might make the situation more tolerable is some additional pay to recognize the added sacrifice that is routinely being accepted by our pilots. But as long as the freight moves, why would our employer add more incentive?
If everyone flew their line, avoided AVA and VLT, declined draft and enjoyed some time at home it would be a matter of days before additional incentives were offered. Our union reps wouldn't even have to ask. Put the crack pipe (draft pipe) down and temporarily walk away. It's not a difficult concept.

But we apparently have complete idiots working for our company. There are guys with 10-12 weeks worth of solid blue lines on their calendar making 200% every day, who actually have the nerve to then express public concern about their health and safety due to being confined to their rooms on layovers. They actually want our union reps to go to the company on their behalf and play the "health and safety card". Hey - dumass - if you were really concerned about your health and safety, you wouldn't be volunteering to do it for 3 months straight. You want to make a general complaint that being locked in your room for 48-hours sucks, go for it. I'm thinking the company is going to turn a deaf ear to that because, 1) - they're paying you 200% to deal with it. and 2) The freight is moving as a result.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of pilots just flying their line at straight time who don't want to work 95% of the month and would like to have some monetary recognition of the huge number of unpaid duty hours they spend processing in and out of country X, Y or Z. They'd like some incentive pay to recognize the sacrifices they make by spending days confined to their rooms or hotel grounds. But the "it's all about me crowd" will never let that happen. They'll keep picking up AVA and draft and move the freight, completely unable to recognize that a temporary halt to that would bring on additional incentives for everyone. Then they could go back to whoring themselves out every day of the month just like they've been doing all along.

Well said, Adler.

A "normal meal", with water and no dessert is $30, times 3 per day (and I only eat 2) is $90. I personally recommend the salmon if you are at the Swiss. If you get McDonald's or Burger King via Uber, it is around $15, and your food is approaching cold by the time you get it. I don't recommend the Pizza Hut, as they put something (maybe seaweed?) on the pizza that gives it a strange taste, but it you like pizza, $25.

I have not gotten a draft or volunteer trip yet. The days that I thought might pick one up were designated as "no volunteer days". Memphis never calls me for draft, I guess they know I say no 95% of the time.

Your points are well taken. If I was on draft or volunteer, I wouldn't be complaining.

I have seen the calendars of the guys with only 3 or 4 days off a month. I am not sure how they do it with the 100/30 rules, but they are. Saw one guy on a trip worth 112 hours. I have heard of a lot more, but not personally seen them.

There is also a crew bus rumor that the extra pay has been noticed and they are taking steps to reduce it.

So, if you are a *****, enjoy it while it lasts.

Not necessarily directed at you. He wanted to know what we thought, and those were MY thoughts. If you feel it was directed at you, then "lighten up, Francis"......

The biggest problem I see is the company thinks this is the new normal and that there is nothing wrong with it. Just like company Jumpseat’s. Big savings for them and no big deal. Funny how I do not have many company Jumpseat’s on my regular line and once I start the trip revisions out the ass with a lot of company JS. By the way you only get bank money for a Jumpseat if it was on your original pairing. Just got and insight response on that!

I actually think, in the time of the pandemic, the Swiss is a great hotel. Gym open (can't get that at most hotels in the US), cafe open plus the hotel food is pretty darn good. Let's see it's very easy to make my $75/day (although it's usually more than that since so many "days" are spent airborne consuming catering) last with the all you can eat breakfast, a lunch snack and a full dinner - not sure who eats more than that? Oh yeah, add in a few beers as well - was just there and it's easily under $75. The lounge on the 10th floor? That's about the best I've seen in the system for now. Look, guys need to understand that the job has changed - as it has for most Americans. It won't last forever but it has changed during this time.

tell me why ALPA would negotiate an increase in perdiem when they don’t get anything (dues) in return? Perdiem isn’t pensionable or taxable (in most cases). The company AND ALPA would
like to see perdiem stay low. That’s why.

The union should be responsive to its members. They should do what the members want, not what is best for the ALPA bureaucrats at the national office. Per diem is TAX FREE. International pilots are losing at least $10,000 TAX FREE per year.

They always tell us it is "our" union. How can that be true, if we are treated like children by the people in charge? How can that be true, if they think they always "know better" than us? I remember when the Roth 401K first came out. I asked if it would be part of our contract. "My union" said, no, it wouldn't be a good deal for us. They made the decision for us, without asking us what we thought. A couple contracts went by before we finally got the Roth 401K. We could have gotten it a lot earlier, if ALPA leadership had decided we should have it. My point is, the leadership should listen to us, but they don't because they are, for all practical purposes, unaccountable to us.

The retirements scheme is a prime example. They need to do a 100% survey of the membership to see how much support it really has, then they need to publish the results, whether they like them or not. Remember the Enders report? The union is just as guilty about hiding stuff from the membership.

Per diem is an expense that the company can write off as a business expense. There is no reason for the company to be against it any more than normal pay increases. Would you rather have $10,000 tax free? or $10,000 that is taxed?

I agree there is company abuse regarding operational JS use during Covid. There is at least one grievance currently pending. Just to clarify your statement above: The MOU JS bank provision is applicable to bid pack trips only. An extra pairing would not get JS bank credit even if the JS was on that "original pairing".

HOWEVER - (my main reason for posting), if you are positioned back to base via company JS at the end of a trip, you must receive travel bank credit for the baseline fare for those JS flight sequences. This is required on every trip, no matter if the JS was originally there or not. This requirement is in Section 8 of the CBA and has nothing to do with the Covid MOU. That CBA provision does not involve the calculation of the baseline fare as an average between the current bid pack and the corresponding one from last year. You simply look up the fares (view fares in deviation & deadhead section) for the month and city-pair and take the highest fare listed.

I have routinely had to submit travel bank discrepancies to get these funds added to my travel bank or to correct the fare amount because it was not the highest listed. Just a head's up.

Someone else already pointed out that under normal conditions, it's really not that difficult to sustain oneself on $75 a day internationally. I've traveled worldwide, ate and drank what I wanted, never thought about trying to save my per diem and still managed to never spend it all. The times on duty, eating long-haul catering or the free breakfasts and/or happy hours at many locations reduce the requirement to find 3 square meals on the economy every day. If someone has to go to a serious sit-down restaurant for 3 meals a day, depending on where they are, that might strain the budget. Most guys I fly with don't operate like that. I sleep through the free breakfasts often because I value sleep more than free food. Then I go find something when I wake up. Paris, Singapore - sure, I might get close to $75 those days. But not all the time. Certainly being locked up during Covid with only room service is going to get expensive and we should be seeing some monetary relief for that in my opinion. But, under normal conditions, I don't want the union to spend negotiating capital to get me a few more tax-free dollars in-lieu of what I would consider better improvements. Here's why:


Per diem is meant to offset or hopefully completely cover expenses incurred while on company business. It's not meant to be an alternative source of tax-free income. It's meant to be spent. If we were provided exactly the right amount for every trip, we would have zero at the end of the trip. So, whether it's tax-free or not doesn't matter because it's all gone.


Having our union go to the negotiating table to claim we need full government rate per-diem only passes the common sense test if our pilots are consistently over-spending to sustain themselves. My experience internationally doesn't support that and while I can't speak for everyone, I would guess many share my view. Seeking more per diem because it's tax-free means it's being saved to use elsewhere as normal income. Why would the company agree to that when our own argument defeats the very reason we're asking for more. You ask for more because you need it - not because you're going to save it.


Increase my A-plan, B-plan, get better work rules so my pay per hour goes up not only from straight raises but because I'm working less for more money. Chasing more per diem is not where we need to be seeking improvements, IMO.

Re-reading this, I realize it doesn’t make my point as well as I hoped. Of course, tax-free would produce more buying power so that does matter. But it would still be gone, which was my main point.

You are finding that FX guys are sadly no better than the dregs of society. Its the "American" mentality of non conformity.
Company put out at least 3 FCIFs about not leaving but that doesn't seem to apply to FX pilots. Everyone who breaks the rules has an excuse. Sad to see highly compensated professionals acting like kids and continually breaking the rules and leaving the hotel. Its not that hard to figure out where the hotel ends and public space starts. Sad to see I work with people who continually want to screw it up for others.

Could you possibly complain any more ? I mean you must be one miserable person to fly with.

I’m going to guess the answer is yes to both.

100% agree

100% agree

Troll alert. That is all.


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