HIFLYR

You had me till lay flat seats!!! What a crock of BS that language turned out to be be!!!

Noworkallplay

How about the laundry list of things we have that others don't? Such as a pension, bigger fleet mix % of WB aircraft, higher class of service language, higher min day, higher vacation amount and credit per day of vacation, etc. you are cherry picking!!!

As for the “snap up” United got it because they were willing to sign an extension. This meant they made no contractual gains except for pay rates. American got a pay raise outside of section 6 but once again no other gains on their below par work rules. Plus how do snap ups work when you are in negotiations and the other airline you snap up off of also is strung out in negotiations for 3-5 years. How long do you think it will take AA, UA and DL to get another CBA? UA has already been in negotiations for almost 3 years.

Noworkallplay

Its actually not a crock. That provision didn't even exist prior to 2015. Also many more flight meet the higher class of service threshold now than prior to 2015. So we can deal in facts or conjecture. Now can we build of the current language, yes. But to say its a crock is to not understand that other airlines dont even have it.

HIFLYR

Hey are you the big guy who negotiated this section? This is a looser for the international fliers! The company has been using the 4 joined lay flat United birds cheap fare to hose us DHing to ASIA. You are right it didn’t exist because we had class of service requirements in the contract!

if it was so good why did the union grieve it and loose. I was told smugly by the Neg Chair during last contracts peep show that it was all taken care of in the notes! Well we found out how good his notes were!

golfandfly

What the hell are you talking about? Before 2015, when you were authorized first, you got first (if it was available). There was no lay flat provision. Many of us inquired about this during the sales job, and we were assured we were wrong (straight from the negotiation chairman’s mouth).

Noworkallplay

And you get it now also if it’s available. More domestic trips now also get it after 2015 CBA.

FXLAX

Aren’t you cherry picking?

As for NB/WB fleet mix, why is that even in a discussion of contract negotiations? Fleet makeup is strictly management’s rights. They choose the tools they feel are needed for the business model they create. We simply negotiate pay and work rules to operate those tools. If they decided to add kites, then we would negotiate for that as well. But we never choose fleet mix. It should NEVER be included in any discussion comparing pay with other pilots!

HIFLYR

How if I am not wrong the hours required for FC domestically did not change with the last contract.

golfandfly

There was no change. This guy wasn’t even here for the last contract and is a self proclaimed expert.

MX727

You are way off on this topic.

Business Class is NOT First Class.

Prior to 2015, we were getting FC on flights with over 10 or more scheduled block hours (8.A.5.c.iii). This contracted added 8.A.5.c.i language, which the company used to trump the other provision. It was grieved and we lost. So, on the AA flight that had three class service from HKG to DFW, we now fly in Business.

All because the guys that were on the negotiating committee weren't listening when all of this was pointed out to them. They didn't understand International flying. They didn't understand Hotel-in-Lieu and they didn't understand long deadheads.

Maybe you need to go find a copy of the 2011 contract, but below is the old relevant section. When you look at the 2015 contract, you will see that NOTHING changed for domestic, so your statement above is false. We did add the 2:30 block for purely international DHs.

a. Deadhead travel shall be booked in coach class unless a higher
class of service is authorized.
b. A class of service higher than coach shall be authorized if:
i. a deadhead exceeds 5 scheduled block hours; or
ii. a deadhead is included in a single duty period exceeding
11:30; or
iii. the scheduled block hours of a revenue flight plus the
scheduled block hours of a deadhead in a single duty
period exceed 8 hours. However, if a domestic duty period
does not exceed 11:30 and a deadhead within that duty
period does not exceed 1:30 (OAG) block, the deadhead
may be scheduled in coach.
c. Higher Class of Service
i. If a higher class of service is authorized on a deadhead
with less than 10 scheduled block hours, such service shall
be booked in Business or First Class at the Company’s
option, subject to availability on the scheduled flight.
ii. If a deadhead has 10 or more scheduled block hours, the
travel shall be booked in the following order based upon
availability on the scheduled flight:
(a) First Class (discounted);
(b) Business Class (full fare or discounted);
(c) First Class (full fare).
iii. If the deadhead is scheduled for more than 16 hours duty,
the following shall apply:
(a) The flight must be a non-stop flight; and
(b) A special booking priority shall apply to deadheads
scheduled over 16 hours. That priority shall be:
(1) Discounted first class;
(2) Full fare first class;
(3) Business class; and
(c) The Company shall ensure that Corporate Travel
(or any subsequent Company designated travel
administrator) attempts to secure first class seating at
the earliest practical point in the planning process. If
Corporate Travel is unable to book first class at the
time the initial booking is made, Corporate Travel shall
notify the pilot who is awarded that trip, via e-mail, of
the unavailability of first class.