Notices

Contract 2021

Old 09-07-2020, 04:26 AM
  #11  
Line Holder
 
Slatsextend's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 50
Default Contract reminders

You cannot ignore what happened in 2015 and previous years, period. Lessons have to be learned from those negotiations and illumination of that process will best serve you as you prepare for next CBA.
The facts are these, you have to hold the Union Leadership feet to the fire, don't accept anything less than what you as a group deserve because this company makes a lot of $$$ despite the poor mouthing that always goes on during negotiations.
If you feel that your voice is not being heard by Union representatives, get them fired and replace them immediately.
In the past there was much $$$ spent by Union leadership at the cost of the membership. You pay them a pretty nice price to keep your jobs secure and you get to enjoy an A plan that the rest of the company employees lost years ago because they were too ignorant to realize that the company would put the weenie to them when it wanted to. The company not only makes a nice profit, they make money off the employee groups as well, that is a fact.
So don't make statements here about disregarding the past, there are painful and important lessons going forward lest you decide to be the ignoramus and press without knowledge of what you are dealing with. Having been there and done that and got several T shirts out of it, I can speak from my own experience .........................
Slatsextend is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:53 AM
  #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 142
Default

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay View Post
My gosh thread drift immediately.

My priorities in Order

1.) Fix retirement (Many different ways to do it)

2.) Industry Leading Pay (Soft and hard or combo)

3.) 3 year deal

then GTFO (Get The Flip Out)

The more we fool with, the more pandoras boxes will be opened.

I like how you think. I’d possibly add 1 pay scale and get rid of wide body/narrow body like UPS. Then we could really bid what we want to fly. 2 year bridge contract would be even better. Then we’re negotiating in a better hiring climate as well as hopefully better economic times. Keep it reaaalllly simple, don’t mess with the A plan and go for +% and cash over cap in B.
Freighthumper is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:10 AM
  #13  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Default

Laser focused priorities. Pay and retirement. There are a few areas I’d like to see fixed, but in the end, probably best to keep it simple.
golfandfly is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:33 AM
  #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
kronan's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox View Post
It was a huge failur Yet there are people among us, Kronan et al, who are lockstep with FedEx ALPA sayin that our contract was a huge win.
Should be easy for you to find a comment where I said TA2015 was a huge win.
But that's something I never said.

I have said, CBA 2015 is Better than what came before. That there are things CRS was doing routinely in 2014 and 2015 that they rarely do now, because it costs them $$.

I absolutely Love how people slam our CBA and say, just look at what FedEx said in September 2015. That it was cost neutral. Well, you know what Else FedEx said in 2015, that shipping rates were increasing by 4.9%. (Anyone think FedEx might've considered the additional payroll costs of our TA prior to deciding on a rate increase?)
Here's another thing FedEx said in September. If the TA's voted down, we have a plan to get through peak.

Internet guru's here will say there's NO Way FedEx could've gotten through peak. Not enough Contract lift. Well, What if FedEx had completely closed the schoolhouse. How many pilots would that free up?

As to the Fear Factor of our Chairman's message...this is a clipping.Some have asked that I lay out a plan for a failed TA. Please recall that your elected representatives voted 10-4 in favor of the TA. By laying out a path for a failed TA, I would be inherently suggesting such a failure is expected. That would be counter to the desires of those that want the agreement to be accepted. Conversely, by not laying out that same path I am disappointing those that want the TA rejected. My purpose is not to subvert any of you, and to allow the voting process to determine the path. In either event, we will indeed have an actionable plan.

There are no shortcuts to a new deal in the works. No doubt, management is making plans for either passage or failure, anything less on their part would be imprudent. They have always negotiated very hard, and I would expect the same going forward in any case.
The NMB has made clear to your leadership that our options under the RLA will be severely restricted due to our importance to the economy. This may not be a convenient fact, but it is the case none the less. A return to mediated bargaining is our only viable alternative should the TA fail. As in the past, we can support that bargaining with informational picketing and unity events as well as other informational actions.

One thing has become very clear to me. Unity matters a great deal. In two cases, we demonstrated unity around specific issues. We stood together in opposition to PBS, and we stood together in opposition to a new-hire retirement carve-out. In both cases, we prevailed. Sadly, on our overall retirement position we were unable to formulate a unifying position. If we are to achieve a better outcome in the future we will need to find solutions that create unity vice division.

One popular definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome. Prior to any future bargaining, either in the near term or at the amendable date of this TA, we must develop a sustainable and practical plan that we can all agree on. I am confident such an approach can be developed.
Whatever path you decide, please do your best to make the choice rational vice emotional. Have no illusions about the challenges ahead. As always, thank you for your professionalism and your understanding.
kronan is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:45 AM
  #15  
Gets Weekends Off
 
kronan's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Default

Originally Posted by pinseeker View Post
I guess you missed the emoji at the end of my post. No one wants negotiations to take that long. As far as DEMANDING a contract within 180 days of the amendable date or we will take a strike vote idea goes, it sounds good and tough, but really has no teeth. The company and investors both know that it will be a year plus before we would be released to self help. And how would that position play to the mediator showing that we were attempting to negotiate in good faith?

I like the sentiment of your idea, but reality dictates that it would not work.
Pinseeker is absolutely correct.
Delta, United, American are all in negotiations. All well past the 180 days. No Strike votes
AA's Chairman said there's no reason they can't get a contract done within a year.
And he's right, shoot PTB, you're right in that we COULD get a contract done quickly. Every time Management has wanted a Contract done, it gets done. See Delta's example. They quickly reached a TA, one shot down-correctly IMO-because the MEC\NC had focused on guaranteed pay in exchange for modifying profit sharing...and then quickly reached a follow on TA (Searched the timing, and found an Reuters article that said Delta rejected the TA in July of 2015, and then reached a new one in Sept of 2016. I had thought it was quicker than that)

UPS was 4 years into negotiations when they took their strike vote.

Whether we like the RLA, is immaterial, unfortunately it's the regulatory environment we swim in.
Ignoring that, is foolish.

FedEx doesn't staff for Peak. Shoot, FedEx doesn't even staff for flying off peak. Or has everyone failed to notice a big chunk of flying is C\O.
So, to think that we Won't have leverage just because FedEx's been hiring a bunch of people in recent history.

Is foolish, IMO
kronan is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:56 AM
  #16  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 142
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox View Post
I am not trying to beat you up. However what you just said is something that eats me to my core. And I can't stand it.

As soon as I became a member here, all I heard was the Union telling us how long it's going to take to get a Contract. And then I've heard members saying how long it's going to be before we get a contract. Why? Because it's always been that way? BS!

DEMAND a Contract within 180 days of the amendable date or let the company we will go down the road for a strike vote. It doesn't matter whether Washington would ever let a strike happen. It is the message it sends. If we were unified, we wouldn't have to wait. Our Union DOES NOT hold this company to their word and the contract. They let the company violate little things here and there. I know personally as I've had them write me to tell me that they weren't going to grieve something because they thought the Company would win. BS They knew I was in the right. They gave up on me.

We keep saying to ourselves it's going to be four more years and it will if we keep it up. We should already have our top ten items and be passing that information to the company for what we want. The union is behind. And we still haven't implemented everything from C2015. Ridiculous.

This is our fault.



It was a huge failure. Yet there are people among us, Kronan et al, who are lockstep with FedEx ALPA sayin that our contract was a huge win. They only got the TA passed because they threw a benny to the older folks who were retiring, something that violates the ALPA handbook. Those in the MEC back then should be ashamed of themselves. They kept talking doom and gloom and couldn't, if not refused, to see the tea leaves about where the industry was headed in just a few months. The MEC Chairman scared everybody with his last minute email about what would happen if we voted no. Then you add in the lies and spin the Negotiating Committee were saying at the road shows and that is how we ended up where we are. That is why ALPA was rightfully sued.

We can't let this happen again. Our MEC must be unified during the negotiating process unlike in 2015 when they were fighting with each other. They failed us. Everyone in the MEC then should have been fired. You get fired when you do a bad job.

Personally, I think the lawyers we've had on the books need to be fired -- all of them. They've gotten fat and lazy. Not kidding, I have called several times to ask a contract question and they turned out to be wrong and it was the company that told me the truth. Sad.

Don't let FedEx ALPA sell us another bad TA. Get involved. Read with skepticism what they are saying. Try to what if the proposals. Try to hear the spin. Demand clear, concise contract language with examples in writing so the company can't come back and say "That's not what we intended."

The main reason why I left a major to come to this company was for the A-plan. If we vote that away, we will be the dumbest employee group in the history of modern labor. And if we do, FedEx recruitment will forever change over night. Don't doubt me. The word is out that we are a weak employee group and we keep giving up gains when our company is thriving. Sad.
Lmao. We will never ever, never, never, ever be released to strike. We can take all the votes you want.
Further, we had guys lapping up open time and draft two years plus after the amenable date of every contract in the last 20 years.
seefive is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 01:13 PM
  #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
PurpleToolBox's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,621
Default

Originally Posted by seefive View Post
Lmao. We will never ever, never, never, ever be released to strike. We can take all the votes you want.
Further, we had guys lapping up open time and draft two years plus after the amenable date of every contract in the last 20 years.
I guess we are doomed then. It is impossible for FDX pilots to make any gains ... although it happened and happens at other airlines. Damn those draft flying pilots!
PurpleToolBox is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 01:49 PM
  #18  
gets every day off
 
Nitefrater's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Retired MD11 Capt
Posts: 705
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox View Post
...DEMAND a Contract within 180 days of the amendable date or let the company we will go down the road for a strike vote...
In planning a campaign, it's important to plan for branches and sequels. What's the negotiating plan if the strike vote comes back 53%-47%, or worse yet, fails to pass?
Nitefrater is offline  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:03 PM
  #19  
Line Holder
 
Slatsextend's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 50
Default CBA and Rank and File

Don't underestimate the power of the rank and file ............... THEY are the UNION. But you cannot sit back and complain and then demand that the Union fix the issues , you have to get INVOLVED and at least attend meetings and SPEAK UP !!!
Speak up to the Union Leadership and let them know what YOU WANT. The past negotiations had the poison pill dropped in the water because .................. Divisive stategies , lack of trust, not enough engagement between the Union leaders and the rank and file, too many steak dinners with the Company, WEAK CONTRACT LANGUAGE and LACK OF CONTRACT LANGUAGE INTENT STUDY ................... I had brought this last item up to Union leadership several times and was told it "was too expensive" ............ too expensive but more expensive to the rank and file that missed out on many issues because the contract language was vague and ambiguous, IMHO, most of it written up and submitted by the Company.
Slatsextend is offline  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:03 AM
  #20  
Not a real airline pilot
Thread Starter
 
DirtyPurple's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: Cargo > Pax
Posts: 365
Default GOOD info

Extracted from the 2% pay bump thread...fantastic analysis amidst the useless mudslinging.

2% pay raise in Oct 2020

Thanks FastBurner...it's post 313 if the link doesn't work for you.
DirtyPurple is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
White Cap
Cargo
49
09-26-2019 06:11 PM
Flyrr
Flexjet
20
04-30-2018 08:00 AM
jsled
United
7
11-28-2012 11:08 PM
ea500driver
Union Talk
26
06-26-2010 09:54 AM
BoredwLife
Major
1
07-16-2008 01:27 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices