Contract 2021
09-06-2020, 07:18 AM
#1
Not a real airline pilot
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: Cargo > Pax
Posts: 365
Contract 2021
I thought I remembered a contract thread; did a search and couldn't find it. So I guess I'll start another one.
I received the ALPA email that a survey is coming; I'll definitely be participating in that. In preparation for that next week, I went back and watched/listened to the ALPA comms on the current priorities for us. I put the links below if anyone else needs them.
It appears to me that the MEC is now backing off any mention of the word 'variable', as that mess is a four letter word to most FedEx pilots. I know it is for me. In previous phone/email surveys, I've continually written about cash over cap and an increase to the B fund %. These are simple concepts that even my simple pilot brain can understand.
As a guy who wasn't on property until after 2015, I'm remaining positive that we can successfully negotiate Contract 2021. I've spoken with a lot of the new guys like me, and the responses are enlightening. As a prior military dude, I'd say one of the biggest assets we have are civilian guys who have lived under other contracts. Those guys can quote chapter/verse, and know their protections cold. I'm only speaking for myself, but as a mil guy, I know enough contract to stay out of trouble most of the time. If I have a contract question, a lot of times the civilian background guy/girl is a total stud for reading the nuances.
Anyway, wasn't trying to start a mud slinging battle here. Just wanted to post what I've been reading, use this as a thread for posting new information as it becomes available, and hear some constructive opinions from guys who have already lived through contract negotiations. Other than ALPA stuff, what else are you guys looking at for education? Thanks.
FedEx MEC Youtube Channel
FedEx MEC Podcasts
I received the ALPA email that a survey is coming; I'll definitely be participating in that. In preparation for that next week, I went back and watched/listened to the ALPA comms on the current priorities for us. I put the links below if anyone else needs them.
It appears to me that the MEC is now backing off any mention of the word 'variable', as that mess is a four letter word to most FedEx pilots. I know it is for me. In previous phone/email surveys, I've continually written about cash over cap and an increase to the B fund %. These are simple concepts that even my simple pilot brain can understand.
As a guy who wasn't on property until after 2015, I'm remaining positive that we can successfully negotiate Contract 2021. I've spoken with a lot of the new guys like me, and the responses are enlightening. As a prior military dude, I'd say one of the biggest assets we have are civilian guys who have lived under other contracts. Those guys can quote chapter/verse, and know their protections cold. I'm only speaking for myself, but as a mil guy, I know enough contract to stay out of trouble most of the time. If I have a contract question, a lot of times the civilian background guy/girl is a total stud for reading the nuances.
Anyway, wasn't trying to start a mud slinging battle here. Just wanted to post what I've been reading, use this as a thread for posting new information as it becomes available, and hear some constructive opinions from guys who have already lived through contract negotiations. Other than ALPA stuff, what else are you guys looking at for education? Thanks.
FedEx MEC Youtube Channel
FedEx MEC Podcasts
09-06-2020, 09:47 AM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 95
A quote from the last retirement series video concerning the upcoming contract -
"For the pilots, they need to understand these challenges and they need to be part of a unified voice. Discussions about who voted for or against the 2015 contract does absolutely zero for us today in preparation. We did a thorough background. We did lessons learned. We looked at all the previous negotiations, paid particular attention to 2015. We'll capitalize on our strengths there and we'll improve where we had weaknesses. But it's time to move on as a single, unified voice."
I read this as saying -
"Even though many pilots are disappointed that the 2015 contract did not improve the A plan, it is time to move on to this VB/PSPP scheme as one voice. We have completed lessons learned, and the biggest takeaway is that we don't have the skills to negotiate with the company to improve the A fund. If you prefer the existing A plan over the new plan which is the first of its type in existence, you are not part of our voice and will damage our negotiation performance. Your new VB/PSPP has been issued to you, so get onboard for the big win."
I was not here at the time, but I began reviewing the videos posted from the last contract talks. I must say it was sad to see that, after all the effort of getting the picketing organized and getting everyone on the buses for a large convoy to make their voices heard was coordinated, in retrospect only half the guys and girls on those buses and holding signs in the hot sun during their days off ended up voting YES. To have leverage and willpower but barely get the TA passed with fifty-something% seems like a failure and would no doubt result in skepticism in the negotiating abilities of the union for the next contract if the same negotiating players are in place in leadership. Leverage usually ends up with a TA that 80+% of the pilot group votes for if it is properly applied. I say this having gone through a couple contracts in previous jobs.
Anyway, the point is, "unification shaming" happens when the leadership is upset that the membership has different priorities, which again is why more pilots probably don't volunteer. It will be super-interesting to see if the survey questions are designed with an specific leadership-required end in mind or if they are truly polling for the will of the membership.
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
"For the pilots, they need to understand these challenges and they need to be part of a unified voice. Discussions about who voted for or against the 2015 contract does absolutely zero for us today in preparation. We did a thorough background. We did lessons learned. We looked at all the previous negotiations, paid particular attention to 2015. We'll capitalize on our strengths there and we'll improve where we had weaknesses. But it's time to move on as a single, unified voice."
I read this as saying -
"Even though many pilots are disappointed that the 2015 contract did not improve the A plan, it is time to move on to this VB/PSPP scheme as one voice. We have completed lessons learned, and the biggest takeaway is that we don't have the skills to negotiate with the company to improve the A fund. If you prefer the existing A plan over the new plan which is the first of its type in existence, you are not part of our voice and will damage our negotiation performance. Your new VB/PSPP has been issued to you, so get onboard for the big win."
I was not here at the time, but I began reviewing the videos posted from the last contract talks. I must say it was sad to see that, after all the effort of getting the picketing organized and getting everyone on the buses for a large convoy to make their voices heard was coordinated, in retrospect only half the guys and girls on those buses and holding signs in the hot sun during their days off ended up voting YES. To have leverage and willpower but barely get the TA passed with fifty-something% seems like a failure and would no doubt result in skepticism in the negotiating abilities of the union for the next contract if the same negotiating players are in place in leadership. Leverage usually ends up with a TA that 80+% of the pilot group votes for if it is properly applied. I say this having gone through a couple contracts in previous jobs.
Anyway, the point is, "unification shaming" happens when the leadership is upset that the membership has different priorities, which again is why more pilots probably don't volunteer. It will be super-interesting to see if the survey questions are designed with an specific leadership-required end in mind or if they are truly polling for the will of the membership.
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
09-06-2020, 11:48 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by DR K
A quote from the last retirement series video concerning the upcoming contract -
"For the pilots, they need to understand these challenges and they need to be part of a unified voice. Discussions about who voted for or against the 2015 contract does absolutely zero for us today in preparation. We did a thorough background. We did lessons learned. We looked at all the previous negotiations, paid particular attention to 2015. We'll capitalize on our strengths there and we'll improve where we had weaknesses. But it's time to move on as a single, unified voice."
I read this as saying -
"Even though many pilots are disappointed that the 2015 contract did not improve the A plan, it is time to move on to this VB/PSPP scheme as one voice. We have completed lessons learned, and the biggest takeaway is that we don't have the skills to negotiate with the company to improve the A fund. If you prefer the existing A plan over the new plan which is the first of its type in existence, you are not part of our voice and will damage our negotiation performance. Your new VB/PSPP has been issued to you, so get onboard for the big win."
I was not here at the time, but I began reviewing the videos posted from the last contract talks. I must say it was sad to see that, after all the effort of getting the picketing organized and getting everyone on the buses for a large convoy to make their voices heard was coordinated, in retrospect only half the guys and girls on those buses and holding signs in the hot sun during their days off ended up voting YES. To have leverage and willpower but barely get the TA passed with fifty-something% seems like a failure and would no doubt result in skepticism in the negotiating abilities of the union for the next contract if the same negotiating players are in place in leadership. Leverage usually ends up with a TA that 80+% of the pilot group votes for if it is properly applied. I say this having gone through a couple contracts in previous jobs.
Anyway, the point is, "unification shaming" happens when the leadership is upset that the membership has different priorities, which again is why more pilots probably don't volunteer. It will be super-interesting to see if the survey questions are designed with an specific leadership-required end in mind or if they are truly polling for the will of the membership.
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
"For the pilots, they need to understand these challenges and they need to be part of a unified voice. Discussions about who voted for or against the 2015 contract does absolutely zero for us today in preparation. We did a thorough background. We did lessons learned. We looked at all the previous negotiations, paid particular attention to 2015. We'll capitalize on our strengths there and we'll improve where we had weaknesses. But it's time to move on as a single, unified voice."
I read this as saying -
"Even though many pilots are disappointed that the 2015 contract did not improve the A plan, it is time to move on to this VB/PSPP scheme as one voice. We have completed lessons learned, and the biggest takeaway is that we don't have the skills to negotiate with the company to improve the A fund. If you prefer the existing A plan over the new plan which is the first of its type in existence, you are not part of our voice and will damage our negotiation performance. Your new VB/PSPP has been issued to you, so get onboard for the big win."
I was not here at the time, but I began reviewing the videos posted from the last contract talks. I must say it was sad to see that, after all the effort of getting the picketing organized and getting everyone on the buses for a large convoy to make their voices heard was coordinated, in retrospect only half the guys and girls on those buses and holding signs in the hot sun during their days off ended up voting YES. To have leverage and willpower but barely get the TA passed with fifty-something% seems like a failure and would no doubt result in skepticism in the negotiating abilities of the union for the next contract if the same negotiating players are in place in leadership. Leverage usually ends up with a TA that 80+% of the pilot group votes for if it is properly applied. I say this having gone through a couple contracts in previous jobs.
Anyway, the point is, "unification shaming" happens when the leadership is upset that the membership has different priorities, which again is why more pilots probably don't volunteer. It will be super-interesting to see if the survey questions are designed with an specific leadership-required end in mind or if they are truly polling for the will of the membership.
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
I would be stunned if it did.
09-06-2020, 02:12 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,622
Originally Posted by pinseeker
You mean contract 2024 don't you?
As soon as I became a member here, all I heard was the Union telling us how long it's going to take to get a Contract. And then I've heard members saying how long it's going to be before we get a contract. Why? Because it's always been that way? BS!
DEMAND a Contract within 180 days of the amendable date or let the company we will go down the road for a strike vote. It doesn't matter whether Washington would ever let a strike happen. It is the message it sends. If we were unified, we wouldn't have to wait. Our Union DOES NOT hold this company to their word and the contract. They let the company violate little things here and there. I know personally as I've had them write me to tell me that they weren't going to grieve something because they thought the Company would win. BS They knew I was in the right. They gave up on me.
We keep saying to ourselves it's going to be four more years and it will if we keep it up. We should already have our top ten items and be passing that information to the company for what we want. The union is behind. And we still haven't implemented everything from C2015. Ridiculous.
This is our fault.
Originally Posted by DR K
A quote from the last retirement series video concerning the upcoming contract -
I was not here at the time, but I began reviewing the videos posted from the last contract talks. I must say it was sad to see that, after all the effort of getting the picketing organized and getting everyone on the buses for a large convoy to make their voices heard was coordinated, in retrospect only half the guys and girls on those buses and holding signs in the hot sun during their days off ended up voting YES. To have leverage and willpower but barely get the TA passed with fifty-something% seems like a failure and would no doubt result in skepticism in the negotiating abilities of the union for the next contract if the same negotiating players are in place in leadership. Leverage usually ends up with a TA that 80+% of the pilot group votes for if it is properly applied. I say this having gone through a couple contracts in previous jobs.
Anyway, the point is, "unification shaming" happens when the leadership is upset that the membership has different priorities, which again is why more pilots probably don't volunteer. It will be super-interesting to see if the survey questions are designed with an specific leadership-required end in mind or if they are truly polling for the will of the membership.
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
I was not here at the time, but I began reviewing the videos posted from the last contract talks. I must say it was sad to see that, after all the effort of getting the picketing organized and getting everyone on the buses for a large convoy to make their voices heard was coordinated, in retrospect only half the guys and girls on those buses and holding signs in the hot sun during their days off ended up voting YES. To have leverage and willpower but barely get the TA passed with fifty-something% seems like a failure and would no doubt result in skepticism in the negotiating abilities of the union for the next contract if the same negotiating players are in place in leadership. Leverage usually ends up with a TA that 80+% of the pilot group votes for if it is properly applied. I say this having gone through a couple contracts in previous jobs.
Anyway, the point is, "unification shaming" happens when the leadership is upset that the membership has different priorities, which again is why more pilots probably don't volunteer. It will be super-interesting to see if the survey questions are designed with an specific leadership-required end in mind or if they are truly polling for the will of the membership.
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
We can't let this happen again. Our MEC must be unified during the negotiating process unlike in 2015 when they were fighting with each other. They failed us. Everyone in the MEC then should have been fired. You get fired when you do a bad job.
Personally, I think the lawyers we've had on the books need to be fired -- all of them. They've gotten fat and lazy. Not kidding, I have called several times to ask a contract question and they turned out to be wrong and it was the company that told me the truth. Sad.
Don't let FedEx ALPA sell us another bad TA. Get involved. Read with skepticism what they are saying. Try to what if the proposals. Try to hear the spin. Demand clear, concise contract language with examples in writing so the company can't come back and say "That's not what we intended."
The main reason why I left a major to come to this company was for the A-plan. If we vote that away, we will be the dumbest employee group in the history of modern labor. And if we do, FedEx recruitment will forever change over night. Don't doubt me. The word is out that we are a weak employee group and we keep giving up gains when our company is thriving. Sad.
09-06-2020, 04:15 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
I am not trying to beat you up. However what you just said is something that eats me to my core. And I can't stand it.
As soon as I became a member here, all I heard was the Union telling us how long it's going to take to get a Contract. And then I've heard members saying how long it's going to be before we get a contract. Why? Because it's always been that way? BS!
DEMAND a Contract within 180 days of the amendable date or let the company we will go down the road for a strike vote. It doesn't matter whether Washington would ever let a strike happen. It is the message it sends. If we were unified, we wouldn't have to wait. Our Union DOES NOT hold this company to their word and the contract. They let the company violate little things here and there. I know personally as I've had them write me to tell me that they weren't going to grieve something because they thought the Company would win. BS They knew I was in the right. They gave up on me.
We keep saying to ourselves it's going to be four more years and it will if we keep it up. We should already have our top ten items and be passing that information to the company for what we want. The union is behind. And we still haven't implemented everything from C2015. Ridiculous.
This is our fault.
As soon as I became a member here, all I heard was the Union telling us how long it's going to take to get a Contract. And then I've heard members saying how long it's going to be before we get a contract. Why? Because it's always been that way? BS!
DEMAND a Contract within 180 days of the amendable date or let the company we will go down the road for a strike vote. It doesn't matter whether Washington would ever let a strike happen. It is the message it sends. If we were unified, we wouldn't have to wait. Our Union DOES NOT hold this company to their word and the contract. They let the company violate little things here and there. I know personally as I've had them write me to tell me that they weren't going to grieve something because they thought the Company would win. BS They knew I was in the right. They gave up on me.
We keep saying to ourselves it's going to be four more years and it will if we keep it up. We should already have our top ten items and be passing that information to the company for what we want. The union is behind. And we still haven't implemented everything from C2015. Ridiculous.
This is our fault.
I guess you missed the emoji at the end of my post. No one wants negotiations to take that long. As far as DEMANDING a contract within 180 days of the amendable date or we will take a strike vote idea goes, it sounds good and tough, but really has no teeth. The company and investors both know that it will be a year plus before we would be released to self help. And how would that position play to the mediator showing that we were attempting to negotiate in good faith?
I like the sentiment of your idea, but reality dictates that it would not work.
09-06-2020, 04:51 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Originally Posted by DR K
Seriously, what are the odds we will ever hear the words "You have spoken, and we will not be pursuing the VB/PSPP scheme any longer. We are now focusing our efforts on improving the current plan (A or B or BOTH) and are engaging with collective bargaining consulting groups to strengthen our positions and strategies." If that ever happens, I will be the most impressed member here. Dr K
09-06-2020, 04:56 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: B767 FO
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by USMCFDX
Never going to happen. PM (the chair) is so invested in this thing and in love with it, hence it will never go away. Remember they were so enamored with it they tried to sell it to the company outside of section 6 negotiations. FedEx labor attorneys are laughing their collective asses off at us.
Exactly this!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
09-06-2020, 07:22 PM
#10
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
My gosh thread drift immediately.
My priorities in Order
1.) Fix retirement (Many different ways to do it)
2.) Industry Leading Pay (Soft and hard or combo)
3.) 3 year deal
then GTFO (Get The Flip Out)
The more we fool with, the more pandoras boxes will be opened.
My priorities in Order
1.) Fix retirement (Many different ways to do it)
2.) Industry Leading Pay (Soft and hard or combo)
3.) 3 year deal
then GTFO (Get The Flip Out)
The more we fool with, the more pandoras boxes will be opened.
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