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Old 09-24-2020, 12:03 PM   #21  
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I donít know about voting unanimously? Maybe they did, but if so it was without OUR input since the survey is just now being accomplished!
I flew with a negotiating committee member over a year ago who flat out stated, PM had already told them their top three priorities for the upcoming contract. Number one, not ďimprove retirementĒ in general, but specifically and emphatically, ďThe VBPĒ (as it was known then). So yes, without our input, without alternatives, the VBP was the chairmanís stated top priority a year ago and still is today!
I filled out the survey, I participated in 2 of the phone surveys (which were generic and twisted to say ďthey supportedĒ something they didnít, Iíve been to meetings, Iíve spoken directly with my rep(s), and Iíve watched videos. Unlike you, Iím not blind to an agenda that isnít driven by us, the membership!


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I flew with this one union guy who said we are going to get an FAE cap of 450k under the current A plan plus an uncapped 15% B plan and a 25% pay increase. Do you believe my story? Come on mannnnnn..... Now we are going to tell flight deck stories on anonymous forums. Do you want to hear my bus driver story and what I learned next?
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:37 PM   #22  
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Golfandfly,

I tried responding to your comment but it appears you are editing or deleting.

Wow complete change of subject. I think 4.a.2.c added some value. Its definitely better than the pre 2015 language. Its way better than splitting everyone based on seniority.

On a different note how is your golf game this summer?
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Old 09-24-2020, 02:05 PM   #23  
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Golfandfly,

I tried responding to your comment but it appears you are editing or deleting.

Wow complete change of subject. I think 4.a.2.c added some value. Its definitely better than the pre 2015 language. Its way better than splitting everyone based on seniority.

On a different note how is your golf game this summer?
Again, you are always confused. 4.A.2.c was an agreement made while we were in 4.A.2.b. It was added to the Contract text in 2015. So, many of us have experienced it.

One of the negatives of the variable plan is hitting a high salary every year to maximize retirement benefits. You arenít going to be able to do that during inevitable downturns and the company chooses to implement this section. The variable encourages hard work. One of the great things about our current concept (or a well designed FDA plan) is the ability to have lean years and still get your maximum benefit (assuming youíve been able to get a high 5, which isnít really difficult now).
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:10 PM   #24  
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Again, you are always confused. 4.A.2.c was an agreement made while we were in 4.A.2.b. It was added to the Contract text in 2015. So, many of us have experienced it.

One of the negatives of the variable plan is hitting a high salary every year to maximize retirement benefits. You arenít going to be able to do that during inevitable downturns and the company chooses to implement this section. The variable encourages hard work. One of the great things about our current concept (or a well designed FDA plan) is the ability to have lean years and still get your maximum benefit (assuming youíve been able to get a high 5, which isnít really difficult now).

Regardless it was an addition in the 2015 CBA as a full fledge contract provision and not an LOA. It added some sense of equality. My statement still stands that the bidpacks already have a big BLG difference top to bottom. Thats industry standard regardless of 4a2c/c


What was the pay rates in 1999? What was the pay rates prior to 2006? Pilots had to work hard to achieve the high five prior. In fact many never achieved it. So saying thats a new concept is inaccurate.

Last edited by Noworkallplay; 09-24-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:41 PM   #25  
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I'm pretty dense but I'm a waffle eater. Somebody proposes a website of his choice of info concerning retirement. somebody else labels that divisive because the people who go to that site might be swayed to think a particular way because........ they are too stupid to figure out that the info doesn't show the complete picture or the analysis is slanted. But the info given out by our union isn't slanted and paints a complete picture? got it. Pass the Aunt Jemima.
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:41 PM   #26  
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Regardless it was an addition in the 2015 CBA as a full fledge contract provision and not an LOA. It added some sense of equality. My statement still stands that the bidpacks already have a big BLG difference top to bottom. Thats industry standard regardless of 4a2c/c


What was the pay rates in 1999? What was the pay rates prior to 2006? Pilots had to work hard to achieve the high five prior. In fact many never achieved it. So saying thats a new concept is inaccurate.
You are wrong on so many items itís impossible to take you seriously. Go back to momís basement...
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:07 PM   #27  
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I dont have those concerns because our pilot group already flys max amount. We already have the group who bids quickest seat movement and some bid home town flying. Look at current conditions for an example. I also dont have concerns that pilots will stay longer because the average retirement age of our pilot group is over 64. That data has already been shared in the education material.

Do you have data to support your position? Or is it just anecdotal? Because when I look at the 777 seniority summary list, the aircraft/base with the most senior junior captains are all the international flying that pays premium. The 777, ANC11, LAX11 junior captains are almost all top 50% as opposed to all the other captain seats being well below 50%. To me, that says that pilots tend to go to higher paying seats faster than the lower paying seats, which is normal, I believe. If you tie the amount you take with you when you leave, to the total amount you make while here, it would be reasonable to think that it will change system bid behavior. To think that it doesnít incentivize increasing career earnings is like thinking that you wouldnít contribute 10% into your 401k in order to get another 10% on top of that. Itís safe to assume that more would chase the money than we have now.

But you did not respond to my second point. Do you have any comments on that?
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:14 PM   #28  
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Regardless it was an addition in the 2015 CBA as a full fledge contract provision and not an LOA.
Just to clarify something, LOAs are just as enforceable as contract language under the RLA. In essence, itís an addition, clarification, or amendment. They are still negotiated under the provisions of the RLA and are no less viable than the contract it changes. For all practical matters, it doesnít matter whether it was in LOA then and part of contract language now. Itís a distinction without a difference.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:29 PM   #29  
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I appreciate FastBurner taking the time, and the effort involved to provide additional retirement information. Is the union providing all the facts or consequences of transitioning to a variable (or stabilized) plan? We are all better off when armed with more information. Isnít that the best way make an informed decision?
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:39 PM   #30  
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I appreciate FastBurner taking the time, and the effort involved to provide additional retirement information. Is the union providing all the facts or consequences of transitioning to a variable (or stabilized) plan? We are all better off when armed with more information. Isnít that the best way make an informed decision?

First post? What great timing you have. Who sent you?

From the material I have seen the past 5 years I think I have seen plenty of information that lays out the pros and cons. I was also around when they looked at 4 different options and landed on this one.

I donít even know why we are getting spooled up over this issue when we have not even had openers. Who even knows what will be proposed come next spring. It seems many are putting the cart ahead of the horse. Letís wait and see what the survey says and see what openers are.

Last edited by Noworkallplay; 09-24-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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