wrxpilot

I’ve been at FedEx for almost three years, and have done at most 6 hub turns. In fact, nothing you wrote mirrors any of the experiences I’ve had here at all. But then again, you said yourself you don’t work here, so I’m not sure why you’re commenting about life at FedEx.

C17B74

You are correct. Very correct yet my friends experiences differ on you based upon iron and flown schedules is my wild guess. Are you 75, 76, 777, etc? You are but one cog in your system as I in mine. So yes my data is just the Purple friends I talk with/served with - about 15 remaining. You know, life long friends. My fellow Company FO sitters would say their lifestyles are not nearly quite the same as mine just based on a decade, simple understanding. Our 76 folks have a really good life at base, but still grind out some outstations - although I will say we are not nearly as mature on hub turn ops as you but that will change eventually with much growing pains. Definitely should have clarified my discussion with only 76 Capt friends who have jumped to these very lucrative seats about 5-6 years ago. One is a 2 decade lifer so far (2000 hire) and missed Christmas Eve and Christmas in 2019 (I‘ll ask if he was able to hold a better schedule in 2020) He mentioned he was hopeful for a better schedule the following year-his words not mine. He lives MEM close, so no real issues just sleeps during the day and flies probably in the middle of the pack - nice. View your other early discussions on “Considering Jumping Ship.” Unsure what iron, but one of your senior folks mentioned y’all had some of the toughest schedules in the system which mirrored my discussions with just friends nothing more. Maybe that has changed. Maybe my friends don’t bid very well. Doubtful, but possible.

*I did enjoy being stuck (only 1 night) with y’all in Korea (Incheon) Transit Hotel if you need to know. Very informative bunch regarding international flying. Y’all can really drain a bar and I would have too. Hopefully the vaccine will bring you out of that hotel soon and back to the good times. We are all sharing the pain, but that was ridiculous. It’s not like we don’t cross paths and we don’t ask questions when you have a live body doing the deed right in front of us. Always curious, always learning as a globetrotter.

Oh yeah, passed my physical today and grateful to keep my job, so I have that going for me which is nice.

RckyMtHigh

I had this choice several years back and stayed at SWA, mostly because I dreaded doing overnight flying, did not want to live in any FedEx bases and did not want to commute. Looking back on it, probably the wrong decision - I since learned that commuters can often start trips with a paid commercial deadhead and that with a bit of seniority night flying can be mitigated. Not sure how true those statements are - but it would have affected my choice if I had known better at the time. The money and rise in seniority was definitely better at FedEx, but I passed on that in the interest of better quality of life living in base at SWA. Again, probably wouldn’t make the same decision today, but you don’t know what you don’t know and I think that is what the original poster is looking for. He can work 12 days a month at SWA on a fairly normal daytime schedule. Several posts about making more money, which is obvious, but what is the cost? Do you need a day on the backside of every trip to recover? If so, that’s not a real day off. What is realistic work schedule at FedEx these days? Is the pension still a thing? What’s realistic progression for a new hire now vice a new hire a years back? Seems like a no-brainer, but a lot of factors go into a decision based on family circumstances. Help the guy out.

Thrust Hold

1) The Pension is still a thing (*for now). $130,000/year (if you hit your High 5 and have 25 years of Longevity left).

2) Upgraded to CA in 2.5 years (4 years on property now).

3) Even as a very junior CA I was home for all Holidays through Open Time drops and swaps.

4) Most folks don't realize how little our planes move on the Holidays and during the weekend (Sat-Mon afternoon).
By default a lot of us get the weekends off or paid during long (3 day layovers) where guys bid to be laying over
where they live or nearby.

5) Yes, a significant number of our trips start, end or have DH's on both sides and you are free to Deviate. Which means you
can rebook your ticket from or to where you live instead of originating out of MEM.

6) The latest vacancy generated the need for 867 New Hires over the next 18-24 months. 232 of those were hired in 2020,
512 will be hired in 2021 and the remainder in 2022.

7) Steady retirements of 200-300 for the next decade. (Lots of seniority movement for a 5,200 pilot operation).

8) The line you bid can be significantly different from the line you end up flying if you utilize Open Time.
As a local, I only fly 1-2 Hub Turns each month and I'm very junior in seat.

FXLAX

If your friend has been at FedEx for 19 years and didn’t get Christmas Eve and Christmas off, then he either valued something else more in his schedule, didn’t bid well at all, or lied to you.

n188r

I’ve also been here almost 3 years. What’s a hub turn? Never done one

MelT

Hiring for growth and retirements at this moment. We are getting new 76 and 77 aircraft, but eventually the MDs and the older Airbi will be retired when the Rona craziness subsides. Much better to get hired at the beginning of the 500+ in the next 18 months than at the end of it. Then we will be hiring primarily for retirements I think.

A 19 year 77 CA would very likely end up working over Christmas, as they would be very junior. A 19 year widebody FO or 75 CA would definitely be able to get those days off, but still might not be able to hold vacation in Dec.

There are always a few guys that say they have never or rarely hub turn, but SOMEBODY is flying our planes in and out of MEM, IND, GSO, OAK and AFW each night, and that will likely be new hires or quick upgraders. The number 1 757 CA bids wknd layovers and those include at least 7 hub turns a month, and most of those wknd layover lines go fairly senior. Or it might be a really senior guy who lives out on the west coast and prefers the layovers at home. Or they might stay senior in the right seat and do pm out and backs or day turns. Those who are hired at the beginning of this wave will get there relatively quickly. Those at the end, not so much.

Can you avoid this by going international? Sure but if not hub turning they are flying am departures on long INTL flights or deadheading to long INTL flights and yes nice long layovers (pre Rona). The nice part is that there is a lot of variety and most folks can find a niche of flying that works for them. Personally I'd rather hub turn than fly 14 hours to NRT or wherever else the 77 goes, but neither of those appeal to me so I can stick to the ugly domestic stuff that commuters don't like. I'm in my 19th year just for reference.

Yeah you can work overtime on your phone and trade/upgrade your schedule and try to avoid hub turns (I sure do) but I wouldn't come here without expecting to fly a few hub turns during your career.

pinseeker

OP, tell your "friend" that if they are happy at their current job, maybe they should stay there. Why go to another airline if you are happy where you are? It's not like a SWA pilot doesn't make a good living.

Those on here that tell you that a 3 year wide body FO can make over $300K in a year aren't telling you that that FO is also working a lot of extra. Same thing for the 75 captain whose username would imply that they don't work. If that captain is making over $350k, he is working a lot of extra. That same captain also claims that they will only fly their line when we enter contract negotiation, so I guess he is looking forward to a $60k pay cut. It will be even more for that 3 year FO if they just fly their line.

Are there pilots that get their home town, yes. Same for weekend layovers near their home and double deadheads. But less than half of the lines have weekend layovers, and around 30% of the lines or less are double deadheads. Someone is flying the remainder of the lines. Unless you want to stay attached to a device, constantly checking open time in order to improve your flying, chances are, you will hub turn at night at some point, if not frequently.

There are certain holidays that you can not drop if they are awarded to you. Those included Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving. If you get a line that has one of those trips, unless you are lucky enough to be able to trade out of it, you are stuck with it. Again, someone is flying those trips, so don't let your "friend" think that everyone has those holidays off.

We have over 5000 pilots. A little less than 1500 of those pilots are either 777, HKG, CGN, or ANC based. That leaves the majority of 3500+ pilots competing for those coveted weekend layovers or domestic double deadheads. Can your friend get that if that is what they want? Possibly, but the math shows that it isn't a guarantee.

So, back to my original statement. If your "friend" is happy where they are, why leave? If they are unhappy, then maybe a change of scenery is in order.

C17B74

Once again, 76 Capt, a few 77 flyers, not 75... mentioned not a great bidder possibly, but this specific friend also indicated he was fairly low seniority wise and unable to hold international (2019), definitely not a liar and has had my back for 25 years thru thick or thin. No issue taken as many folks lie I get it, but my best friends are the best for good reason. I raised the question as a spoiled pilot complaining about not being able to hang out with my pals anymore overseas. Most have upgraded to WB Capt or simply WB. 2020 took care of any meet and chill sessions so there’s that.

Definitely just an observer with Great friends in most areas of the industry and no expert by any means, just read your fellow Purple postings (MeIT) and many others hit other tough spots: “The pure lines are on the day side and can be pretty grueling especially when the day sort is consistently late.“-whataclub. Not everything is easy, but you do get compensated I can say. Hub turns exist as we taxi in/out of your domiciles and those of you who avoid them-well done but someone is doing them. Some folks like them as it fits their lifestyles and that’s what it’s all about. Others despise long haul which I totally get, while I enjoy a change of scenery only due to seniority mind you. We all know you have a great company and during these times it’s even more accentuated. What drives greatness is the priorities of the individual and how their met. Your company has led the way for most of us - keep on keeping on so thank you.

Thrust Hold

Na, as a local I just shotgun my schedule so that I'm just doing an inbound or an outbound, but not a Hub Turn. Really makes a remarkable difference.