kronan

25.H.8.c A pilot who elects OTP at least 4 hours prior to the showtime of his original trip may accept a VLT trip as if he had never been eligible for substitution.

Draft of course, is always a player regardless of your timing

kronan

My bad on the answer,

thought you were asking something else.

Been a while since I've been in sub situations where it's appropriate, but there was an additional option in VIPS to allow you to decline OTP outright.

Now that IT's "improved" things, might take a phone call to CRS...if they'll answer. But if you're lucky enough to get into 48+ hours of trip extension\conflict....don't really need the OTP hours in the future. Not the end of the world to get them, but can certainly make a future mid-month paycheck wicked low

Adlerdriver

Yes, I've done the decline SUB (actually declined a RAT, then declined SUB) and picked up the very same trip as an AVA. But, in that process, I automatically received OTP along with the corresponding CH debt 3 bid periods into the future. I don't remember seeing any way to avoid the OTP and I don't see anything in the contract that mentions that, hence my question in my last post to you.

But, I didn't try just calling skeds and asking them to decline the SUB without OTP. Not sure if that would have worked. All you're really doing in that case is asking them to drop the SUB. They've called to ask me to drop SUB for draft before, so they have the capability. I'll try it next time because the OTP is practically worthless to me during the current AVA/Draft feast and I hate the negative CH debt down the road.

Overnitefr8

But by picking up the same trip as AVA/DRF aren't you losing out on any potential disruption pay (additional duty periods, layover changes etc) Those can add up. Of course, one doesn't have any idea how some of these pairings are going to turn out.

Adlerdriver

Yes. You're also forfeiting any of the protections of trip guarantee. Until you block out on the trip, it could be cancelled and you would get nothing or revised to pay less and you would get the lesser pay.

The concern about disruptions is probably more valid on shorter trips. The extra 50% pay on a draft/AVA trip that only runs a day or two could easily be eclipsed by disruptions. The trip I mentioned was an 80 hour single departure trip. If you block out on that which is usually not in question and capture the trip guarantee you would need some pretty serious disruptions to outweigh the extra 40 CH provided by the draft pay itself.

My experience with disruptions is they are much more infrequent than a trip I'm scheduled to fly at least blocking out. After that, disruptions may occur but not enough to counter draft pay. So, I don't think I would forgo the opportunity to make an extra 50% in the off chance that my trip gets disrupted once in a blue moon. But that's from the perspective of a large, international trip flyer.

Noworkallplay

Ah great discussion. Now let’s get ride of substitution, which has options, and let’s turn everyone into reserves when trips get modified or canceled like other airlines do. Take a look at the contract comparison document..... As someone from one of those legacy airlines prior I can tell you what we have is 100 times better. At the old shop you were scheduling tool once your trip was canceled or modified. No choice the answer was you had to do it. Be careful what you ask for boys and girls....

Merle Haggard

Not sure where you worked, but at my two prior majors and a national, when trips cancelled you were done with guarantee. If modified or extended you got the higher pay. This sub thing is ridiculous. It's also the main thing blocking real time trip trading.