Yes, ALPA speaks for me!
#11
As we say in MEM, “I gots to axe.......”, why do we still have pilots negotiating instead of seasoned, professional, labor relations attorneys? It always reminds me of the doctor that flies the V-tail Bonanza....”Because I’m a doctor, I’m smart enough to fly......”. “Because I’m a pilot, I know how to negotiate........”. This has never made sense to me.
#12
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,108
So let me get this straight - you are advocating for a "professional negotiator" - whatever that is - but clearly someone who is not a pilot, will not live under our contract, cares about nothing more than his pay check, won't be around to see if his negotiating skills actually paid off since work rule and other challenges come up years after signing date, has no idea how to read incredibly confusing parts of our contract, has no experience with any of our contractual language, grievances, or issues, couldn't care less about you or me and will never ever see you again once the contract is signed? That's the guy you want because he has the title "professional negotiator"? Tell you what, give me some actual names and bios. I think this idea of an outside professional negotiator is the biggest lie the naysayers have ever delivered.
#14
So let me get this straight - you are advocating for a "professional negotiator" - whatever that is - but clearly someone who is not a pilot, will not live under our contract, cares about nothing more than his pay check, won't be around to see if his negotiating skills actually paid off since work rule and other challenges come up years after signing date, has no idea how to read incredibly confusing parts of our contract, has no experience with any of our contractual language, grievances, or issues, couldn't care less about you or me and will never ever see you again once the contract is signed? That's the guy you want because he has the title "professional negotiator"? Tell you what, give me some actual names and bios. I think this idea of an outside professional negotiator is the biggest lie the naysayers have ever delivered.
#15
So let me get this straight - you are advocating for a "professional negotiator" - whatever that is - but clearly someone who is not a pilot, will not live under our contract, cares about nothing more than his pay check, won't be around to see if his negotiating skills actually paid off since work rule and other challenges come up years after signing date, has no idea how to read incredibly confusing parts of our contract, has no experience with any of our contractual language, grievances, or issues, couldn't care less about you or me and will never ever see you again once the contract is signed? That's the guy you want because he has the title "professional negotiator"? Tell you what, give me some actual names and bios. I think this idea of an outside professional negotiator is the biggest lie the naysayers have ever delivered.
#16
So let me get this straight - you are advocating for a "professional negotiator" - whatever that is - but clearly someone who is not a pilot, will not live under our contract, cares about nothing more than his pay check, won't be around to see if his negotiating skills actually paid off since work rule and other challenges come up years after signing date, has no idea how to read incredibly confusing parts of our contract, has no experience with any of our contractual language, grievances, or issues, couldn't care less about you or me and will never ever see you again once the contract is signed? That's the guy you want because he has the title "professional negotiator"? Tell you what, give me some actual names and bios. I think this idea of an outside professional negotiator is the biggest lie the naysayers have ever delivered.
#17
So let me get this straight - you are advocating for a "professional negotiator" - whatever that is - but clearly someone who is not a pilot, will not live under our contract, cares about nothing more than his pay check, won't be around to see if his negotiating skills actually paid off since work rule and other challenges come up years after signing date, has no idea how to read incredibly confusing parts of our contract, has no experience with any of our contractual language, grievances, or issues, couldn't care less about you or me and will never ever see you again once the contract is signed? That's the guy you want because he has the title "professional negotiator"? Tell you what, give me some actual names and bios. I think this idea of an outside professional negotiator is the biggest lie the naysayers have ever delivered.
#18
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
You’re funny.......lets take a look at the last three contracts negotiated by “our union negotiators”......Industry leading?....doubtful....concessionary.....absolute ly......did we run out of the “war chest” of money we were promised by ALPA and concede early? Perhaps. I was at the meetings....there wasn’t much cheering going on when the highlights of the TA were presented. Here’s the point. A pilot looking across the table from a learned company negotiator is almost always going to blink. And the company negotiator has been trained to look for weakness, inconsistency and openings to better the companies cause. If we (ALPA) were to use the same type of negotiators at the table, there is no reason our NC Chair could be right next to him at the table and whisper, “that’s BS, we can’t go for that”, or, “you’re on point...keep pressing”. Out of the many “polls” and “Surveys” the union takes all the time, why not bring this question to the crew force? I think you’d be surprised at how many of the members would say, “let’s bring in the big guns for a change”. But, as previously stated, our own d@mn egos’ get in the way.
So hold my beer...... I had a family member involved in negotiations and I remember him saying, "using an outside firm is the biggest false fallacy this pilot group has ever propagandized'. We have local and national attorneys involved. I hear it said by pilots at other properties on these forums all the time also. Did we not hire an outside law firm at some point in contract 06 or 11? That lasted about 6 months because we spent more time and money catching the law firm up to speed on our contract than actually them negotiating anything. It was the biggest wast of money... The company has their own in-house people just like we do. The company doesn't hire outside people to run negotiations. They may use consultants for specific pieces like we do, but not run the show. They understand you put the same people back at the table so they understand the "how we got to this" and "why". You also want pilots involved because guess who understand the application of the contract the best? The people working under it.......
Last edited by Noworkallplay; 03-20-2021 at 07:08 AM.
#19
As we say in MEM, “I gots to axe.......”, why do we still have pilots negotiating instead of seasoned, professional, labor relations attorneys? It always reminds me of the doctor that flies the V-tail Bonanza....”Because I’m a doctor, I’m smart enough to fly......”. “Because I’m a pilot, I know how to negotiate........”. This has never made sense to me.
#20
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
You guys make it sound like it's only the pilots on the NC that go in and negotiate. You do realize they have "seasoned, professional labor relation attorneys" that work for ALPA with them, right? Not to mention SMEs appropriate for the section being negotiated during that session.
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