Enough talking, it's time for Action!
07-20-2021, 01:14 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by HvypurplePylot
They did and didn't have the support. And this is the result, trying to make those that did hold the positions they sought face this BS rather than trying to manage our pilot groups affairs.
Elections have consequences. Some just aren't happy with the results so they feel the need to disrupt rather than unify.
I ran for Block 3 Rep on a platform of saving and improving our "A" Plan. I have made no secret of the fact that our CBA FAE "High Five" cap should be double the IRS Defined Benefit cap. (In 1998 the IRS cap was $130,000, so our FAE cap was set at $260,000. Today, the IRS cap is $230,000, so the FAE cap should be $460,000.) The "A" Plan formula gives a pilot 50% of that high five in retirement, so he can get up to the IRS limit. The IRS limit has not always increased year over year (like this year, for example), but it has never gone down.
I won that election with a very large voter turnout, despite a concerted effort by MEC members to elect the candidate who campaigned on his expertise with spreadsheets and a promise to take a look and see about the Variable Benefit Plan.
When my term ended, I had "graduated" to Block 2, so I was ineligible to run for re-election. BrianH had served a term as Block 5 Rep that had ended a year earlier, and he ran against another MEC-supported candidate. It was close, but the MEC's horse won that race. He is not the target of a recall.
So, it's not the "sour grapes" picture you try to paint. I never ran for Block 2 Rep, or Block 5 Rep, or Block 7 Rep, but I expect them to represent me and my fellow Local Council 22 member pilots.
Representatives have a Constitution & By-Laws responsibility to listen to their constituents and provide adequate representation, not to ignore them and try to prove how much smarter they are than the members they are elected to serve. When they cannot or will not listen to and represent the members who elect them, they are not fit to serve in those positions.
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07-20-2021, 01:39 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
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Originally Posted by HelpABrotherOut
What did Tony do for you the whole time he sat at the table?
The MEC was mere moments away from approving a Grievance Settlement that was wrapped up in an "Ongoing Measures" rewrite of a section of the CBA. One particular grievance filed by no pilot asserted that pilots hired in a small group so that they could all "choose" MD-11 as their first seat assignment were actually in a "Class" with a larger group of pilots hired the following day, and that seniority numbers should be distributed by "Class" instead of the way the CBA so clearly states, in black and white: Date of hire, SSAN, draw straws if the SSAN's are the same. The settlement would have stripped many of these MD-11 pilots of the seniority number they were awarded the day they were hired, and would have made ALPA their enemy for life.
The CBA says nothing about a class determining seniority numbers. As I said, and as the CBA clearly states, the Date of Hire is the first factor. And yet, our Grievance Committee Chairman was about to take away seniority numbers based on something NOT in the CBA.
I was the one who spoke up and objected and explained why it was a bad idea to commit the same sin we accuse the Company of doing -- replacing CBA plain language with a different bastardized interpretation. Even more more egregious than being complicit in taking seniority numbers away was the fact that our Grievance Committee was the instigator. Making enemies of pilots for life is not how we represent pilots.
Ultimately I was able to convince the Negotiating Committee and the Grievance Committee to take that particular grievance settlement out of the Ongoing Measures package so that it could pass, and we agreed to debate the seniority number issue at a later date. When that debate actually occurred, the MEC agreed to leave the seniority numbers alone.
Most pilots who were "saved" probably don't even realize that the conversation ever occurred, or how close they were to receiving a friendly note from ALPA explaining why they were being stripped of seniority. However, I think it was the right thing to do, and it's a moment I'm proud of.
What I did for The Walrus was maintain a commitment to serve, a drive to always do the right thing, even if there was an easier way, and a promise to be the voice for those who I was elected to represent.
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07-25-2021, 05:25 PM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
TonyC,
So recalling people is the “Action” we need now?!!! Its sad that this is the best Action you can come up with during negotiations. Are you in management? Are you a management plant from Fred or some consulting firm new hire sent to spread disunity?
Enough talking, it's time for Action!
So recalling people is the “Action” we need now?!!! Its sad that this is the best Action you can come up with during negotiations. Are you in management? Are you a management plant from Fred or some consulting firm new hire sent to spread disunity?
07-27-2021, 10:32 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
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Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
TonyC,
Enough talking, it's time for Action!
So recalling people is the “Action” we need now?!!! Its sad that this is the best Action you can come up with during negotiations. Are you in management? Are you a management plant from Fred or some consulting firm new hire sent to spread disunity?
Your advice matches that implied by many of our elected representatives, which is to sit back and color, and we'll let you vote when we're done.
Suppose you need to have your house painted. Sure, you could do it better yourself, and for less money, but this time your wife insists you stay off the ladder (you nearly fell off and broke your neck the last time) and hire the professional paint crew. You contact them through their website where you fill out a form which includes the question, "How important is it that you have new paint on your house, regardless of the color?" You check the square next to "VERY IMPORTANT" because the only other option is "NOT VERY IMPORTANT", but you find a spot near the end of the on-line application to type in, "The house should be painted POWDER BLUE", because that's the color your wife wants.
Fortunately, the paint crew selects your house as one for which they will provide their services -- you should consider yourself fortunate, because they are reported to be the very best house painters in the entire county. They show up at your house and start unloading their gear, preparing to commence the task.
Now, there are certain details about the process about which you do not care. Whether they use brushes and ladders, or rollers with extensions, or airless sprayers, you don't care. Whether they begin on the west side, or the front, or the back -- doesn't matter. Whether they purchased the paint in 1-gallon cans or 5-gallon buckets -- doesn't matter. But there is one detail that is critical -- your wife said powder blue. So, when they start spraying your house with orange, what do you do?
I guess you would stand back and watch, knowing that you have the final say when they ask to be paid. When your wife says, "Honey, I thought we wanted powder blue, and this looks very orange," how will you answer? "Yes, dear, but these are the professional painters, and I'm glad they paint for us, and we should support them and if we don't like the finished product, we can vote 'NO' with our wallet."
Maybe you'll approach the foreman and ask him why they're painting your house orange when you specifically asked for powder blue. Maybe the foreman will tell you they've surveyed the neighborhood and all the other houses and paint color options and decided that orange is the best color for your house. Their color experts know more about colors than the average homeowner, so they don't really give much weight to the homeowner's choice. Otherwise, their application would have included the question, "What color do you want your house to be?" Maybe you'll tell them, that's nice, but your wife really wants powder blue. Maybe the foreman will acknowledge your input and wish you a good afternoon, and go back to painting the house orange.
When your wife sees that they're still painting the house orange, maybe she'll persuade you to talk to the foreman again, or maybe even to call and talk to the owner of the painting company. When you explain to him that you don't want an orange house, that you specifically asked for powder blue, maybe he'll explain that orange is actually a type of powder blue. In fact, "Powder Blue" is written on the cans of paint in black sharpie. Orange is the new Powder Blue. Indeed, you can see with your own eyes where "NEON ORANGE" has been marked through on the paint cans, and "Powder Blue" has been written in bold, black permanent marker.
Maybe that will be enough for you as far as interaction with the painters goes, and you'll watch them continue to paint the entire house orange. When the foreman comes to you for money, you can argue about what color the house should be, and whether you should pay them for their service. You may claim you wanted powder blue, and the foreman can claim you wanted new paint, regardless of color.
Or maybe, after they start painting your house the wrong color, and after they continue to paint the wrong color after you've told them, several times, you can limit the damage by firing them. Maybe you can hire a crew that will use the paint color you specify.
Trust me, I'm a University of Tennessee fan, and I kinda fancy that shade of orange. But if my wife specifies a color and the paint crew refuses to use it, they're fired.
But you do you. Enjoy coloring. Crayola currently sells 120 shades of crayons.
.
07-27-2021, 10:44 AM
#27
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Joined APC: May 2021
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by TonyC
Yeah-rite. I think we all know who the pretender here is.
Your advice matches that implied by many of our elected representatives, which is to sit back and color, and we'll let you vote when we're done.
Suppose you need to have your house painted. Sure, you could do it better yourself, and for less money, but this time your wife insists you stay off the ladder (you nearly fell off and broke your neck the last time) and hire the professional paint crew. You contact them through their website where you fill out a form which includes the question, "How important is it that you have new paint on your house, regardless of the color?" You check the square next to "VERY IMPORTANT" because the only other option is "NOT VERY IMPORTANT", but you find a spot near the end of the on-line application to type in, "The house should be painted POWDER BLUE", because that's the color your wife wants.
Fortunately, the paint crew selects your house as one for which they will provide their services -- you should consider yourself fortunate, because they are reported to be the very best house painters in the entire county. They show up at your house and start unloading their gear, preparing to commence the task.
Now, there are certain details about the process about which you do not care. Whether they use brushes and ladders, or rollers with extensions, or airless sprayers, you don't care. Whether they begin on the west side, or the front, or the back -- doesn't matter. Whether they purchased the paint in 1-gallon cans or 5-gallon buckets -- doesn't matter. But there is one detail that is critical -- your wife said powder blue. So, when they start spraying your house with orange, what do you do?
I guess you would stand back and watch, knowing that you have the final say when they ask to be paid. When your wife says, "Honey, I thought we wanted powder blue, and this looks very orange," how will you answer? "Yes, dear, but these are the professional painters, and I'm glad they paint for us, and we should support them and if we don't like the finished product, we can vote 'NO' with our wallet."
Maybe you'll approach the foreman and ask him why they're painting your house orange when you specifically asked for powder blue. Maybe the foreman will tell you they've surveyed the neighborhood and all the other houses and paint color options and decided that orange is the best color for your house. Their color experts know more about colors than the average homeowner, so they don't really give much weight to the homeowner's choice. Otherwise, their application would have included the question, "What color do you want your house to be?" Maybe you'll tell them, that's nice, but your wife really wants powder blue. Maybe the foreman will acknowledge your input and wish you a good afternoon, and go back to painting the house orange.
When your wife sees that they're still painting the house orange, maybe she'll persuade you to talk to the foreman again, or maybe even to call and talk to the owner of the painting company. When you explain to him that you don't want an orange house, that you specifically asked for powder blue, maybe he'll explain that orange is actually a type of powder blue. In fact, "Powder Blue" is written on the cans of paint in black sharpie. Orange is the new Powder Blue. Indeed, you can see with your own eyes where "NEON ORANGE" has been marked through on the paint cans, and "Powder Blue" has been written in bold, black permanent marker.
Maybe that will be enough for you as far as interaction with the painters goes, and you'll watch them continue to paint the entire house orange. When the foreman comes to you for money, you can argue about what color the house should be, and whether you should pay them for their service. You may claim you wanted powder blue, and the foreman can claim you wanted new paint, regardless of color.
Or maybe, after they start painting your house the wrong color, and after they continue to paint the wrong color after you've told them, several times, you can limit the damage by firing them. Maybe you can hire a crew that will use the paint color you specify.
Trust me, I'm a University of Tennessee fan, and I kinda fancy that shade of orange. But if my wife specifies a color and the paint crew refuses to use it, they're fired.
But you do you. Enjoy coloring. Crayola currently sells 120 shades of crayons.
.
Your advice matches that implied by many of our elected representatives, which is to sit back and color, and we'll let you vote when we're done.
Suppose you need to have your house painted. Sure, you could do it better yourself, and for less money, but this time your wife insists you stay off the ladder (you nearly fell off and broke your neck the last time) and hire the professional paint crew. You contact them through their website where you fill out a form which includes the question, "How important is it that you have new paint on your house, regardless of the color?" You check the square next to "VERY IMPORTANT" because the only other option is "NOT VERY IMPORTANT", but you find a spot near the end of the on-line application to type in, "The house should be painted POWDER BLUE", because that's the color your wife wants.
Fortunately, the paint crew selects your house as one for which they will provide their services -- you should consider yourself fortunate, because they are reported to be the very best house painters in the entire county. They show up at your house and start unloading their gear, preparing to commence the task.
Now, there are certain details about the process about which you do not care. Whether they use brushes and ladders, or rollers with extensions, or airless sprayers, you don't care. Whether they begin on the west side, or the front, or the back -- doesn't matter. Whether they purchased the paint in 1-gallon cans or 5-gallon buckets -- doesn't matter. But there is one detail that is critical -- your wife said powder blue. So, when they start spraying your house with orange, what do you do?
I guess you would stand back and watch, knowing that you have the final say when they ask to be paid. When your wife says, "Honey, I thought we wanted powder blue, and this looks very orange," how will you answer? "Yes, dear, but these are the professional painters, and I'm glad they paint for us, and we should support them and if we don't like the finished product, we can vote 'NO' with our wallet."
Maybe you'll approach the foreman and ask him why they're painting your house orange when you specifically asked for powder blue. Maybe the foreman will tell you they've surveyed the neighborhood and all the other houses and paint color options and decided that orange is the best color for your house. Their color experts know more about colors than the average homeowner, so they don't really give much weight to the homeowner's choice. Otherwise, their application would have included the question, "What color do you want your house to be?" Maybe you'll tell them, that's nice, but your wife really wants powder blue. Maybe the foreman will acknowledge your input and wish you a good afternoon, and go back to painting the house orange.
When your wife sees that they're still painting the house orange, maybe she'll persuade you to talk to the foreman again, or maybe even to call and talk to the owner of the painting company. When you explain to him that you don't want an orange house, that you specifically asked for powder blue, maybe he'll explain that orange is actually a type of powder blue. In fact, "Powder Blue" is written on the cans of paint in black sharpie. Orange is the new Powder Blue. Indeed, you can see with your own eyes where "NEON ORANGE" has been marked through on the paint cans, and "Powder Blue" has been written in bold, black permanent marker.
Maybe that will be enough for you as far as interaction with the painters goes, and you'll watch them continue to paint the entire house orange. When the foreman comes to you for money, you can argue about what color the house should be, and whether you should pay them for their service. You may claim you wanted powder blue, and the foreman can claim you wanted new paint, regardless of color.
Or maybe, after they start painting your house the wrong color, and after they continue to paint the wrong color after you've told them, several times, you can limit the damage by firing them. Maybe you can hire a crew that will use the paint color you specify.
Trust me, I'm a University of Tennessee fan, and I kinda fancy that shade of orange. But if my wife specifies a color and the paint crew refuses to use it, they're fired.
But you do you. Enjoy coloring. Crayola currently sells 120 shades of crayons.
.
informal US
Talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.
07-27-2021, 10:53 AM
#28
Organizational Learning
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by HelpABrotherOut
Bloviate:
informal US
Talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.
ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adjective
- (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
adverb
- 1.
in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"these points come from some of our best information sources, who realize they'll be attacked ad hominem" - 2.
in a way that relates to or is associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"
Definitions from Oxford Languages
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07-27-2021, 01:50 PM
#29
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
TonyC
What a diatribe….. Are you board? Quarantined? Hotel Isolation? Guess what?!! 5300 people get to pick the color of the house not 1…. Hints the reason you have been wrong all along. Thats the basics of being a part of pilot group. Are you wanting to act like a subcontractor?
Last I checked we are not even at the color picking phase, but simply at the lets get an estimate phase and see a few choices on colors. Then starts the negotiation with the contractor on the price phase of each color. Now your story is complete.
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What a diatribe….. Are you board? Quarantined? Hotel Isolation? Guess what?!! 5300 people get to pick the color of the house not 1…. Hints the reason you have been wrong all along. Thats the basics of being a part of pilot group. Are you wanting to act like a subcontractor?
Last I checked we are not even at the color picking phase, but simply at the lets get an estimate phase and see a few choices on colors. Then starts the negotiation with the contractor on the price phase of each color. Now your story is complete.
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