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Contract Negotiations and the Schedule

Old 12-22-2021, 04:27 AM
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Default Contract Negotiations and the Schedule

How long are we willing to let the times on every pairing continue to be a falsehood? 45min to 2 hours late from every hub, every night for two years and the pairings still have not been adjusted to reflect the truth. The truth would have pay, layover, duty, and day off implications if the pairings were built accordingly. SIG? Contract enforcement? Bueller? Apparently bidpack pairings are just make believe (along with all of the contract parameters that must be considered when building them).

If the MEC won't push this most basic issue, then how will the details of any new contract even apply?
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:04 AM
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In addition, why are we even negotiating a new contract when there are things from the last contract which are yet to be implemented? There you be a heavy penalty for such detail.
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:37 AM
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I've always said that if our time for pay purposes started when we were scheduled to block out, the company would be more interested in us blocking out on time.

After all, we are required to be here and are usually sitting in the cockpit, ready to fly, so pay us.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightflyer View Post
I've always said that if our time for pay purposes started when we were scheduled to block out, the company would be more interested in us blocking out on time.

After all, we are required to be here and are usually sitting in the cockpit, ready to fly, so pay us.
I think there should be a proper adjustment or penalty added to our pairings when they block out late to account for the delay. I've said that to my rep and it's been passed to the NC.
But just to be accurate, our trip pay calculations starts an hour prior to scheduled block out and so does our duty time. If you block out 2-hours late, and don't make any up in flight so you block in two hours late, that shows in your total duty time. It would also shorten your scheduled layover and show that on your pairing. Since we get paid the higher of block time flown, min pay per duty period, trip rig or very occasionally duty rig, it's rare that the block out delay actually generates more pay unless it goes so long you end up with a duty period disruption or FAR extension. Unfortunately, unless a pairing is already built right up to the limits, that two-hour block out delay is probably going to get absorbed by the normal slop in the typical hub turns. I agree that there is little motivation for the company to fix that problem as it stands now. It should cost them more to leave us sitting in the jet. Send a DART and talk to your rep.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:24 AM
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I guess I explained that poorly.

Block time should start at the time we were scheduled to block out.

That would affect all the flights that are block over 8.

It might also affect some one day trips when your block is over 6.

If we were paid like this, the company would be more interested in keeping the schedule on time, and if they didn't, we would make more money, since we have to be here, in the cockpit, waiting on someone else to leave.

Very similar to when we block in, and there are no stairs for a half hour or maybe longer on some Sunday mornings. We should be paid for the time we are trapped on the airplane.
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Old 12-22-2021, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by StarClipper View Post
In addition, why are we even negotiating a new contract when there are things from the last contract which are yet to be implemented? There you be a heavy penalty for such detail.
ummm….because we want a pay raise maybe??
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Old 12-22-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Emmerson Bigs View Post
I think there should be a proper adjustment or penalty added to our pairings when they block out late to account for the delay. I've said that to my rep and it's been passed to the NC.
But just to be accurate, our trip pay calculations starts an hour prior to scheduled block out and so does our duty time. If you block out 2-hours late, and don't make any up in flight so you block in two hours late, that shows in your total duty time. It would also shorten your scheduled layover and show that on your pairing. Since we get paid the higher of block time flown, min pay per duty period, trip rig or very occasionally duty rig, it's rare that the block out delay actually generates more pay unless it goes so long you end up with a duty period disruption or FAR extension. Unfortunately, unless a pairing is already built right up to the limits, that two-hour block out delay is probably going to get absorbed by the normal slop in the typical hub turns. I agree that there is little motivation for the company to fix that problem as it stands now. It should cost them more to leave us sitting in the jet. Send a DART and talk to your rep.
There's a difference in being paid AFTER things derail vs. building them IAW pairing construction parameters. There are absolutely pairings that would change to the favor of the crews. If we had seniority stagnation you can bet your a$$ that there would be more complaints about this. As it stands, nobody gets stuck eating the most garbage of the pairings for long.
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightflyer View Post
I guess I explained that poorly.

Block time should start at the time we were scheduled to block out.

That would affect all the flights that are block over 8.

It might also affect some one day trips when your block is over 6.

If we were paid like this, the company would be more interested in keeping the schedule on time, and if they didn't, we would make more money, since we have to be here, in the cockpit, waiting on someone else to leave.

Very similar to when we block in, and there are no stairs for a half hour or maybe longer on some Sunday mornings. We should be paid for the time we are trapped on the airplane.
Block has never been on when you were scheduled. We have duty periods that cover our day. Try doing an air turn back out of Anc and getting a new jet and still blocking 8 plus hours. Its in the contract.
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Stan446 View Post
Block has never been on when you were scheduled. We have duty periods that cover our day. Try doing an air turn back out of Anc and getting a new jet and still blocking 8 plus hours. Its in the contract.
I know that.

My point is that it should be.
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Old 12-23-2021, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by StarClipper View Post
In addition, why are we even negotiating a new contract when there are things from the last contract which are yet to be implemented? There you be a heavy penalty for such detail.
Tell us what that is please!
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