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Old 03-13-2023, 04:05 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Huck View Post
I know what's going to happen:

1. Delta's going to furlough someday
2. Folks are going to be real glad they stayed here

Yeah, I know, I'm an old guy who's been in this business for 30 years, and my father was in it for 25 years before that. I should keep my mouth shut.

I just can't cope with this brave new world where the airline business cycle's been defeated. Sounds too much like wishful thinking to me.

We'll see who's right.
I agree with you, Huck.
Keep the faith,
fbh
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:49 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI View Post
Interview and get a cjo and tell them no thanks…is probably a blacklist event. Not a good idea.
It most definitely is and I agree with you in this situation. Don't do it!
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:28 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Moosefire View Post

The massive difference between today and 08/09 is EVERY pax carrier is hiring like crazy and growing, they weren’t then. I say more power to anyone who wants to go… it’s the right time for it.

It’s up to the company to give folks a reason to want to be here.
Absolutely correct! And that job isn't in MEM where you can get shot, and you're not at the end of a self induced cost cutting drive that isn't going to work out well for pilots.

$4000/mo and no hotel should have been our first clue of how bad the company wanted us to train and fly here. Even AA pays over double for you to train with them.

And it's definitely more than 10 pilots trying to leave. Would have to take my boots off to count the amount of people I know here with plans to takeoff. Many with CJO's and just waiting for their time, or the PRIA request to come through and they get fired. Really nice way to show guys the door.

It's a pilot's market- stay in MEM for what looks like a substandard contract/no vote to another year+ fight, and a looming displacement? Or go somewhere where things are booming and upgrades are a plenty? Do the math. Less than 3 years here, it's not a huge sell to start over. Have had many Capts tell me to go elsewhere, this isn't Fred's baby anymore.
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Old 03-13-2023, 09:13 PM
  #24  
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I guess I’ve been here a bit but wtf…why would anyone want to fly for the pax carriers given their history of furlough and the main fact that they actually fly passengers…do I want massive improvements to the contract?? Of course as we earned it and continue to on the daily (nightly &#129315. Too many Johnny come lately’s here looking over at the neighbors yard.
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Old 03-13-2023, 09:37 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by pig on the wing View Post
I guess I’ve been here a bit but wtf…why would anyone want to fly for the pax carriers given their history of furlough and the main fact that they actually fly passengers…do I want massive improvements to the contract?? Of course as we earned it and continue to on the daily (nightly &#129315. Too many Johnny come lately’s here looking over at the neighbors yard.
It’s people that hate people that make this cargo job tough. We are in a time when the pax carriers are the place to be and cargo simply doesn’t pay as well. This has not been the case for 23 years. When you are making much less than your pax breatheren you can say, “at least I don’t have to deal with those pesky passengers.” Hey captain, do you remember how much radioactive stuff we’re hauling tonight?
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Old 03-14-2023, 05:37 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by pig on the wing View Post
I guess I’ve been here a bit but wtf…why would anyone want to fly for the pax carriers given their history of furlough and the main fact that they actually fly passengers…do I want massive improvements to the contract?? Of course as we earned it and continue to on the daily (nightly &#129315. Too many Johnny come lately’s here looking over at the neighbors yard.
This +1,000,000!!! One thing I can say is I was skeptical the first time I heard this at 3am on the line, but after being told the same thing over and over I now am a believer. Thank you for reiterating! It’s easy to forget this simple view on life!!
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Old 03-14-2023, 09:46 AM
  #27  
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I have a good friend who last year had the option of FedEx or a high paying regional. He jumped on the direct CA entry regional position and making more than a lot FDX CAs now. Paychecks right off were unbelievable. About 200k in bonuses, plus they match 121 longevity. Top pay plus plenty of triple time pick ups. Not a bad option for someone late in years.
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Old 03-14-2023, 10:09 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Topgum View Post
I have a good friend who last year had the option of FedEx or a high paying regional. He jumped on the direct CA entry regional position and making more than a lot FDX CAs now. Paychecks right off were unbelievable. About 200k in bonuses, plus they match 121 longevity. Top pay plus plenty of triple time pick ups. Not a bad option for someone late in years.
that’s gonna make a hard stop sometime in the not so distant future. The idea the regionals are the place to be is absurd. Did you spend any time at a regional?
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Old 03-14-2023, 12:13 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI View Post
that’s gonna make a hard stop sometime in the not so distant future. The idea the regionals are the place to be is absurd. Did you spend any time at a regional?
Ha, only 10 years for me! It’s a very different place at the regionals now. The pilot referenced is pushing 60. It makes sense for him only because of age. He’s confident that he’d never make an equivalent amount (in 5 years) at FedEx under the current circumstances. With the low first year pay at Fedex and huge short term contracts + incentive at the regionals it was a no brainer.
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Old 03-14-2023, 12:41 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by pig on the wing View Post
I guess I’ve been here a bit but wtf…why would anyone want to fly for the pax carriers given their history of furlough and the main fact that they actually fly passengers…do I want massive improvements to the contract?? Of course as we earned it and continue to on the daily (nightly &#129315. Too many Johnny come lately’s here looking over at the neighbors yard.
Johnny come lately here looking over at the neighbor's yard = Pilots expecting FDX ALPA to take advantage of pattern bargaining.

"Pattern Bargaining: Collective bargaining in which the union tries to apply similar pay and work rules to multiple employers in the same industry. ALPA, through the national Collective Bargaining Committee, works to establish, maintain, and advance the prevailing pay rates and working conditions for each segment of the industry by coordinating bargaining strategies with MECs and Negotiating Committees across ALPA properties." Source: ALPA Negotiations Training Seminar Glossary


The history of furloughs is very likely not doomed to repeat itself in my view. The passenger airline industry has changed in two very significant ways. First, consolidation has created 4 massive carriers that all contribute massively to the US economy and more importantly to the systematic functioning of the US economy. The Covid-19 pandemic saw exactly zero pilots furloughed from major passenger carriers. The government (doesn't matter what your feeling are on government bailouts, they happened) determined that providing money to the passenger airlines was important to avoid bankruptcies and further widespread damage to the economy. Don't be mistaken, the only reason the money was earmarked for salaries was because it's the easiest political sell. Who votes for these politicians? People do. If the money had been given and told it was for "debt servicing" the employees would have revolted. In the end, it didn't really matter what the money was for. The passenger airline CEO's went to congress and said this is how much we need to meet all current obligations. The government provided that amount. Secondly, record numbers of retirements due to past industry stagnation are coming. In the post 9/11 world airlines knew they wouldn't need pilots for a long time. They gutted the career. It doesn't take the IQ of a rocket scientist to fly airplanes but there is some relative intelligence required. I work with some of the smartest people in the world and I know many of them would have been successful doing other things. That being said, throughout the early 2000's many intelligent people who may have had an interest in flying knew that they could do better for themselves and their families in other career fields. Now we have a major shortage and you see what are basically European style airline sponsored ab initio training programs sprouting up around the US. Even with some economic headwinds, the need to replace retiring pilots will outpace most setbacks for many years to come.

To you last point, "they actually fly passengers", are you suggesting that because we fly freight we should be so thankful that we accept to fly at a discount? These passenger pilots also spend the majority of their career flying in the day time and not wrecking their body clock 15-19 days a month. Many of them commute in the day their trip begins and sleep in their own bed the day their trip ends. In a decade of flying passengers I can count on one hand the number of issues I have had with flight attendants or passengers. How many stories have you heard of pilot v pilot conflicts? My guess is plenty. It's time for us to stop acting like not having to "deal with passengers and flight attendants" is some type of contractual benefit. I wonder what the guys who hate other humans so much are like at home?

Last edited by UnusualAttitude; 03-14-2023 at 01:13 PM.
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