Realignment Bid
04-16-2023 | 11:01 AM
#71
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More garbage in Section 24, the gift that keeps on giving. If a pilot is displaced (assigned) it is still considered a lateral move for the sake of a subsequent system bid. So even if you are put into a position via assignment you cannot bid back out of it via award (to a lateral position) until you have been activated for the adequate amount of time. The fact that ALPA ever agreed to this language is puzzling. The fact that we didn't even bother attempting to improve it during this negotiation is infuriating. Example: Pilot is excessed out of their 777CA seat and into the 767CA seat. There is another bid in 18 months, that pilot who was previously a 777CA and excessed cannot bid back to the 777CA seat but a pilot JR to him not subject to a bid award restriction can go right ahead. Seniority abrogation at it's finest.
With 4 more 777 coming this year, why would they displace anyone? Seems odd.
04-16-2023 | 11:24 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude;[url=tel:3625036
3625036[/url]]More garbage in Section 24, the gift that keeps on giving. If a pilot is displaced (assigned) it is still considered a lateral move for the sake of a subsequent system bid. So even if you are put into a position via assignment you cannot bid back out of it via award (to a lateral position) until you have been activated for the adequate amount of time. The fact that ALPA ever agreed to this language is puzzling. The fact that we didn't even bother attempting to improve it during this negotiation is infuriating. Example: Pilot is excessed out of their 777CA seat and into the 767CA seat. There is another bid in 18 months, that pilot who was previously a 777CA and excessed cannot bid back to the 777CA seat but a pilot JR to him not subject to a bid award restriction can go right ahead. Seniority abrogation at it's finest.
04-16-2023 | 11:26 AM
#73
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More garbage in Section 24, the gift that keeps on giving. If a pilot is displaced (assigned) it is still considered a lateral move for the sake of a subsequent system bid. So even if you are put into a position via assignment you cannot bid back out of it via award (to a lateral position) until you have been activated for the adequate amount of time. The fact that ALPA ever agreed to this language is puzzling. The fact that we didn't even bother attempting to improve it during this negotiation is infuriating. Example: Pilot is excessed out of their 777CA seat and into the 767CA seat. There is another bid in 18 months, that pilot who was previously a 777CA and excessed cannot bid back to the 777CA seat but a pilot JR to him not subject to a bid award restriction can go right ahead. Seniority abrogation at it's finest.
This is not true. If you think it is, please post the specific contract section and language to support your claim.
Have you heard of Assignment Right of Return? It's in the contract.
04-16-2023 | 11:34 AM
#74
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 490
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More garbage in Section 24, the gift that keeps on giving. If a pilot is displaced (assigned) it is still considered a lateral move for the sake of a subsequent system bid. So even if you are put into a position via assignment you cannot bid back out of it via award (to a lateral position) until you have been activated for the adequate amount of time. The fact that ALPA ever agreed to this language is puzzling. The fact that we didn't even bother attempting to improve it during this negotiation is infuriating. Example: Pilot is excessed out of their 777CA seat and into the 767CA seat. There is another bid in 18 months, that pilot who was previously a 777CA and excessed cannot bid back to the 777CA seat but a pilot JR to him not subject to a bid award restriction can go right ahead. Seniority abrogation at it's finest.
04-16-2023 | 12:10 PM
#75
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From: B767
I asked the question specifically via dart.
This is the response from FDX ALPA Legal:
“If you are assigned TO a WB captain position from a WB captain position: Once there, and if activated, then a future System Bid occurs, you will need to be activated in the WB captain seat for 24 months in order to receive a lateral WB Captain crew position. The 24.F.1 restrictions don’t “look back” on how you got there, it just looks “forward.””
This is the response from FDX ALPA Legal:
“If you are assigned TO a WB captain position from a WB captain position: Once there, and if activated, then a future System Bid occurs, you will need to be activated in the WB captain seat for 24 months in order to receive a lateral WB Captain crew position. The 24.F.1 restrictions don’t “look back” on how you got there, it just looks “forward.””
04-16-2023 | 02:45 PM
#76
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I asked the question specifically via dart.
This is the response from FDX ALPA Legal:
“If you are assigned TO a WB captain position from a WB captain position: Once there, and if activated, then a future System Bid occurs, you will need to be activated in the WB captain seat for 24 months in order to receive a lateral WB Captain crew position. The 24.F.1 restrictions don’t “look back” on how you got there, it just looks “forward.””
This is the response from FDX ALPA Legal:
“If you are assigned TO a WB captain position from a WB captain position: Once there, and if activated, then a future System Bid occurs, you will need to be activated in the WB captain seat for 24 months in order to receive a lateral WB Captain crew position. The 24.F.1 restrictions don’t “look back” on how you got there, it just looks “forward.””
Well, 24.C.2.e says that answer isn't totally correct. That answer would be correct if after being assigned from the 77CA to 76CM you wanted to bid 77CM or some other WB, but not for the situation you mentioned before. I suggest you ask the question again and reference 24.C.2.e and ask how that applies.
04-17-2023 | 02:06 AM
#77
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From: B767
Not trying to muddy the waters. Trying to help inform my fellow pilots on the implications of this very important bid. That is the answer that came directly from ALPA. I’m not making this up.
04-17-2023 | 05:38 AM
#78
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From: B767
How does ARR work if you are assigned from a category that will never have positions again? In other words, if you are "assigned" from ANC MD11 CA to MEM 767 CA you will never be able to ARR back to ANC MD11 CA. Are you suggesting that in a subsequent bid that pilot would not be subject to the later/down bid award restrictions if they had the seniority to hold MEM 777 CA on a bid 12 months later? Honest question. These are the questions that I am trying to have answered and the response I gave was from ALPA. My motivation is the help pilots make the best choice possible and think about the future as well as the present.
04-17-2023 | 06:39 AM
#79
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How does ARR work if you are assigned from a category that will never have positions again? In other words, if you are "assigned" from ANC MD11 CA to MEM 767 CA you will never be able to ARR back to ANC MD11 CA. Are you suggesting that in a subsequent bid that pilot would not be subject to the later/down bid award restrictions if they had the seniority to hold MEM 777 CA on a bid 12 months later? Honest question. These are the questions that I am trying to have answered and the response I gave was from ALPA. My motivation is the help pilots make the best choice possible and think about the future as well as the present.
04-17-2023 | 07:21 AM
#80
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From: B767
If it confuses you, contact ALPA. They answered my DART quickly.
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