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Substitution is the New Norm

Old 03-26-2023, 03:03 PM
  #11  
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For Delta, a not all inclusive summary from the new contract.

Reroute
1. 2.
A pilot is subject to reroute as defined in Section 23 A. 51. A regular pilot may not be rerouted:
a.
prior to the airborne departure of the first flight segment of their rotation.

Exception: A regular pilot may be rerouted prior to the airborne departure of the first flight segment of their rotation provided:
1) the pilot’s rotation begins with a roundtrip within a single FDP that has been delayed,
2) the reroute is for another roundtrip within a single FDP that is scheduled to depart no earlier than their original roundtrip, and
3) the pilot is returned to their original rotation following the roundtrip into which they are rerouted.
Note: A pilot who has been rerouted under Section 23 L. 2. a. Exception will receive:
a)
Single pay and credit (and/or the applicable pay, no credit for a GS, GSWC, SS, PBSPR, IA, or IAWC) for the greater of their original rotation or the rotation flown, plusb) Single pay, no credit for the roundtrip into which they are rerouted.
into a flight segment(s) that commences after arrival of the last flight segment of their rotation, (i.e., a tag-on flight segment) as the rotation then exists.
Exception: A pilot may be rerouted into flying that was previously removed from their rotation due to a reroute.


A reserve pilot who has been rerouted, and returned to their original rotation under Section 23 L. 4. after a break-in-duty at their base, will have the option to be released after such break-in-duty instead.
Note: Any such request will be made to Crew Tracking, and must occur at the time the reroute is acknowledged.
When a pilot is rerouted from their original rotation:
a.
the pilot will receive single pay and credit, plus one-half pay, no credit (in addition to any other form of pay) for the rerouted deadhead(s) and/or flight segment(s) prior to the first break-in-duty following the reroute; and
the pilot will receive single pay and credit, plus single pay, no credit (in addition to any other form of pay) for any deadhead(s) and/or flight segment(s) subsequent to the first break-in-duty; and
upon reaching their base, the pilot will be returned to their original rotation or
if a pilot on a VAS is available to perform such rerouted flying.

automatically released from the rotation.
Note one: A regular pilot who is released under Section 23 L. 4. c. will be entitled to rotation guarantee for the value of their original rotation under Section 4 F. in addition to the reroute pay under Section 23 L.

A rerouted regular pilot who is not scheduled to release within four hours of the scheduled release of the last duty period of their original rotation (the “time limitation”) will receive single pay and credit (and/or the applicable pay, no credit for a GS, GSWC, SS, PBSPR, IA, or IAWC) for the rotation as flown, plus single pay no credit for any duty period(s) that extends beyond such time limitation.

A rerouted pilot arriving at their base beyond their originally scheduled release time will:
upon request at the time they are notified of the reroute, be provided positive space on-line transportation to any Company station; and
be provided a hotel in base upon request, if unable to commute home due to the reroute.



edit: apologize for the bad formatting. Tough working on mobile.

Last edited by Viper25; 03-26-2023 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 03-26-2023, 03:03 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by SloanKettering View Post
At UPS, if your trip is revised greater than 36 hours out you can decline the revision but it is not pay protected. You cannot currently pickup over the original footprint, although there are grievances for this. Inside of 36 hours, the company owns the trip and they can revise you to their hearts content. A 2 hour premium is owed for each revision. We like to say we are all a 2 hour premium away from being on reserves…

Hopefully FDX and UPS get some improvements to this in the next CBA.
Can they cancel your trip and just put you on the near equivalent of short call reserve in base if they want?

That's what we have now. It's awful.
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Old 03-26-2023, 03:11 PM
  #13  
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Yes UPS can put a line holder on a type of reserve if they cancel your trip. We call it RCID, it has a much longer call out window
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Old 03-26-2023, 03:20 PM
  #14  
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I’m a domestic swineholder so realistically my trip just gets changed from LBB to ABQ… but yes the int’l guys might get a 10-14 day trip cancelled and given RCID over the original footprint if they want to stay pay protected. RCID is long call, you have to call scheduling between 0900-1300 LDT and they can’t give you a report before 0100 LDT the next day. Sucks for the ANC commuters because even though it’s “long call” if you live on the east coast you can’t necessarily be home and get to base in time.
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Old 03-26-2023, 03:29 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by threeighteen View Post
Can they cancel your trip and just put you on the near equivalent of short call reserve in base if they want?

That's what we have now. It's awful.
At DAL we also have what’s called recovery flying. If something happens and your trip gets NOOP (No operation, such as the equipment subs or weather IROPS cause it) you get put on 23K. You can either wait for the company to assign you something over that footprint (paid the higher of the 2), roll the dice they do not assign you something (then have limits timeline wise they can do this), or put in a recovery slip. In that slip as long as the trip was more than 50% of the original trip it covers your obligation and pay protected for the full trip. That trip you request does not even have to be over the same day footprint.

For reserves, they can assign you a trip, pull it and put you back on reserve in some instances.
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Old 03-26-2023, 03:59 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by oncewasgood View Post
Entire thread torched after realizing everyone has some form of substitution. May be called something different but the bases is similar. Ouch that didn’t turn out as planned.
Gotta admit, I didn’t think that was NoWork at first. But only one poster has reading comprehension like that.
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Old 03-26-2023, 04:07 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad View Post
At DAL we also have what’s called recovery flying. If something happens and your trip gets NOOP (No operation, such as the equipment subs or weather IROPS cause it) you get put on 23K. You can either wait for the company to assign you something over that footprint (paid the higher of the 2), roll the dice they do not assign you something (then have limits timeline wise they can do this), or put in a recovery slip. In that slip as long as the trip was more than 50% of the original trip it covers your obligation and pay protected for the full trip. That trip you request does not even have to be over the same day footprint.

For reserves, they can assign you a trip, pull it and put you back on reserve in some instances.
If your trip gets extended into another trips footprint, what happens then. At FedEx we lose the overages for the extension unless we decline pay for the trip that got knocked off for the extension.
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Old 03-26-2023, 04:08 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by oncewasgood View Post
Entire thread torched after realizing everyone has some form of substitution. May be called something different but the bases is similar. Ouch that didn’t turn out as planned.
uh, no. It’s VERY different most everywhere else. They may get reassigned but that has to happen right away, not 3 days later or however long your sub window is. I doubt very seriously that’s going to change in the next contract as the company was really pushing for us to go into sub even if your trip gets taken for training or owe them the hours for that trip.
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Old 03-26-2023, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by oncewasgood View Post
Entire thread torched after realizing everyone has some form of substitution. May be called something different but the bases is similar. Ouch that didn’t turn out as planned.
No our SUB is definitely much worse than even what he described.
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Old 03-26-2023, 05:04 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by oncewasgood View Post
A lot of statements being made about other airlines to find out the poster got it wrong. If we want to lie then so be it.
Are you referring to me? What did I get wrong?

I never claimed in any way that other places didn't have some form of a recovery obligation if their scheduled flying was cancelled. Actually, I asked for details on HOW it worked at other places so that I could compare it to how it works here.

I am plenty familiar with the way ours works, it's (potential) pros and it's (numerous) cons. I wanted to know how other places worked and get rid of the hyperbole.

The bottom line is that the rate of substitution is going to be on the sharp increase here. I've talked to lots of senior folks who still have no idea how it works. Mainly because they would say "it rarely happens, so I just avoid it." That is no longer going to be possible. Our domestic network is changing rapidly with the DRIVE initiative and that will lead to a much higher rate of substitution.

Everyone needs to brush up on the flow chart and understand their options WHEN, not IF, they are put in Sub. Additionally, we should be brainstorming now on ways to improve it's implementation so that our QOL and/or overall compensation is not completely wrecked by this issue.

Potential new joins should also take the time to understand what substitution is and how it plays out here. I wasn't wise on it when I got hired, but looking back on it I sure wish I was
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