Substitution is the New Norm
03-26-2023, 05:21 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by CatIIAutoLand
In all seriousness, we need to determine what the solution is here. Get rid of Sub? Probably pretty hard. Improvements? That I think is possible. There has to be a compromise here that doesn't include the possibility of you having a bunch of one day AM out and backs when you are a commuter and you had previously held a DDH with good layovers. Yes you can decline, but they you have to work extra to rebuild your schedule.
For those on the outside (UPS, Delta, United, AA, etc) can anyone weigh in on how it works when the company cancels your trip, specifically due to gauge change? Are you pay protected? What extra pay do you get if you fly a different trip? What is your obligation window? Any type of trip or only one that meets certain parameters? Can you decline? I keep hearing about "industry standard" but I want to know exactly how that plays out at each of the other spots.
For those on the outside (UPS, Delta, United, AA, etc) can anyone weigh in on how it works when the company cancels your trip, specifically due to gauge change? Are you pay protected? What extra pay do you get if you fly a different trip? What is your obligation window? Any type of trip or only one that meets certain parameters? Can you decline? I keep hearing about "industry standard" but I want to know exactly how that plays out at each of the other spots.
2 hours (4 hours if removed prior to report) hours availability after report
Reassignments
• Recovery flying must not interfere with next trip
• New off duty period at base hotel provided
• Recovery flying can include field standby
Return from original trip:
0000 to 1200 original release, next day by 1200
1200 to 2359 original release, next day by 2359
International single or no augmentation 48 hours
International double augmentation 60 hours
According to DALPA’s comparison document and their new contract reference guide they get:
- 6 hours availability after Report
- Reassignment flying must report after original report
- May be entitled to lodging
- May waive rotation guarantee with sufficient reserve manning
- Any time a pilot is off their original rotation:
- Any rerouted legs prior to the first break in duty following the reroute following the reroute pay 150% (100% pay & credit, 50% pay, no credit)
- After the first break in duty any subsequent leg not on the pilot’s original rotation pays 200% (100% pay & credit), 100% pay, no credit
- Credit due to the pilot is unchanged
- Upon reaching their base while on a reroute, a pilot will be:
- Returned to their original rotation or released
- At time of reroute all segments beyond pilot’s base will be built into rotations and run
through trip coverage
- A pilot will not be rerouted into more than one duty period that originates after the end of
their originally scheduled rotation.
- Such duty period will not extend beyond one calendar day after the end of their originally
scheduled rotation
- A rerouted pilot:
- that arrives at their base after their originally scheduled release time will receive positive space transportation at pilot request.
- who is unable to commute home due to a reroute will receive a hotel in base in addition to positive space transportation at pilot request
According to DALPA’s & UALPA’s documents, AAL gets:
4 hours availability after Report
Return from Original Trip:
Domestic 4 hours or 01:59 whichever is later,
ocean crossing 30 hours
Waive rotation guarantee with concurrence of Crew Scheduling
May not assign flying commencing before and/or finishing beyond the replacement flying window (including illegalities)
Premium pay (150%) provisions applies for any reassignment beyond the original rotation footprint
Our comparison document and UALPA’s, UPS gets:
4 hour availability after Report
- If notification of a revised trip is greater than 36 hours, the pilot may decline the revision and lose pay protection. If the revision is within 36 hours, the pilot must fly and will receive the greater of
the original or the revised trip
- Remains available to the company for any unused days if trip canceled within 36 hours
- Return from Original Trip:
24:00 from original domestic trip
48:00 from original international trip
Last edited by FXLAX; 03-26-2023 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Clarity
03-26-2023, 08:00 PM
#22
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD-11, old man
Posts: 2,197
Originally Posted by Nightflyer
The company imposed the current substitution rules between the FCH and our first contract. Then they became part of our first contract. No one really likes them, but that's how they came about.
03-26-2023, 09:18 PM
#23
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,975
Originally Posted by threeighteen
If your trip gets extended into another trips footprint, what happens then. At FedEx we lose the overages for the extension unless we decline pay for the trip that got knocked off for the extension.
03-26-2023, 09:25 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,090
Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad
When this has happened to me I got reroute pay for the first trip, and they dropped the first legs of my next trip (pay protected) and caught me up to it. I’ve never had it go further than that.
03-27-2023, 10:12 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by oncewasgood
We get reroute pay and add pay also. You can then do draft over the footprint of the other trip or sit sub to protect pay on the following trip. You can decline sub and do premium flying or get makeup credit if that is your fancy. We have a lot of choices and options which is what makes it confusing to some. I guess if you don’t want choices we could simplify it and get language that says you must like other airlines.
03-27-2023, 10:25 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,090
Originally Posted by oncewasgood
We get reroute pay and add pay also. You can then do draft over the footprint of the other trip or sit sub to protect pay on the following trip. You can decline sub and do premium flying or get makeup credit if that is your fancy. We have a lot of choices and options which is what makes it confusing to some. I guess if you don’t want choices we could simplify it and get language that says you must like other airlines.
Also, if you elect to sit sub on the following trip you lose the overages from the extension that put you into sub. you have to decline sub to get the overages from the extension that put you into sub.
03-28-2023, 07:22 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
What happens now when a pilot is bumped off a trip for company controlled training?
Guess what’s strongly rumored to be the new norm once our TA is released?
One word answers only.
Enjoy!
In Unity,
DLax
Guess what’s strongly rumored to be the new norm once our TA is released?
One word answers only.
Enjoy!
In Unity,
DLax
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