Lets just vote no now, without seeing it. I guess thats what you want. You haven't seen anything or heard anything factual but YOU know already its concessionary. Wish I had your vision but I'm thankful you aren't involved in the negotiations,

Because it is going to partially meet only one of the stated goals for a small subset of pilots and miss “bigly” on the other two goals while ignoring the threats that have developed very recent past.

I hope the TA is awesome and passes easily.

My agenda is the contract opener.
industry leading payrates
targeted qol
retirement
The feeling I got was we aren’t going to be competitive. You’re right that’s not ok with me.
I want to be the best in the industry, not number 7. Maybe that’s ok with you? We need to benchmark our peers and it’s not happening.

It's ok Stan446 will return to these forums triumphant and say, "see I told you so" when we get the industry leading agreement we were promised. Make sure you come on back so you have the opportunity to share how awful you feel about doubting the process or the outcome.

Just gotta wait another day or two…..then we can actually evaluate what is in the TA. It’s like being with kids on a road trip. Just 5 more minutes. 🤞Hope we are all happy. Some will never be so hopefully most 😏

Meet you back here to see how your argument shifts to "Well its not everything that we asked for but what's the alternative?" Hope is a pretty poor strategy, but for those unwilling to fight what else is left. Trust and believe when the TA is published I will be here to listen to your equivocations and arguments in favor of it.

Care to share what made you feel that way?

Probably the typical ALPA responses lots of people I talk to are getting......"it's the best we can get", "we can't guarantee that the next deal won't be worse", "time value of money", "its not concessionary because the total value of the deal is greater".

"it's the best we can get"
What makes a FedEx pilot not worth the same as a legacy? I truly don’t get it. Do we produce less revenue? Are passengers more profitable than cargo that allow employees to properly compensated? If you think about it, a Legacy 777 will have 3 to 4 pilots and maybe 10 flight attendants. How can the company not afford to just pay pilots? All these red herring arguments are distractions. The company can afford to pay us not only market rates, but industry leading rates. We just happen to work for an employer that wants a war. It doesn’t have to be this way, but if that’s the way management wants it, then we have to stand our ground at all costs.

"we can't guarantee that the next deal won't be worse",
I have reached the point where I don’t care. If this TA does not meet our criteria, I can only take it as an insult and an offense. If the next deal is worse, we turn that one down too. We go to the end of the line and see where that takes. I have a family. I don’t want the turmoil. But if that’s where management leads, I can only stand my ground and know what I’m worth.

"time value of money",
Being underpaid by 5% with a lagging retirement comes at a cost too.

​​​​​​​"its not concessionary because the total value of the deal is greater"
Concessions are viewed against the previous contract. American and Delta and UPS passed with zero concessions. Why are we always the ones that agree to concessions?