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- - Hard Limits (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fedex/143526-hard-limits.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan446 (Post 3659048)

So there you are losers. The Union just blew all your scope paranoia out of the water. But I know, the Union is wrong, the MEC is wrong, everyone is wrong but this forum. Sorry Mr. Hagard but you can go on *****ing about nothing. The TA is going to pass.

mdeshazo, its sad for you but its time to just call it a day. Maybe there will be another TA if you are around for you can lie about.

And now, popcorn.

PM played poker at the high stakes table, using our careers as chips, and he anteed all in on a bad hand, ignoring all the tells from across the table, the new language (new, history be damned), new players, different game, but we have a choice NOT to bet with him.

We have a choice NOT to be blinded on the hopes of a small win.

If we ante up with him, and the company shows it’s hand, y’all gonna be scratching your heads, saying how you didn’t see that coming. But yes, you did.

and if you think your precious A fund is safe, ain’t nothing safe when you go all in with a bad hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan446 (Post 3659048)

Very substantive. Name calling and accusation.

The sad thing is, you're going to be proven wrong in either case.

A) The TA fails and you were wrong; or

B) The TA passes and the wet leasing and slow bleed with negative seniority progression in perpetuity occurs - and you're wrong.

PM referencing historical norms WRT wet leasing is ridiculous. Fred is out, Raj and Shaw are in. Not to mention, history has shown every airline in modern history farming out everything they could until their pilot group fought to limit that activity. That's the history PM should reference as it pertains to scope.

Stan, why do think the thousands of First Officers and junior Captains that have come from the regionals in the past few years are so concerned about this? They know, they were right in the middle of scope every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Behnke (Post 3658962)

This from the NC via email today:

This TA did not give away any hard limits. On the contrary, TA Section 1 has the first hard limit on wet leasing: during any bid period in which Section 4.A.2.c. is implemented. This limit ties our protections in Sections 23 (Furlough) and in 4.A.2.b. and c. to wet leasing. When coupled with the new SAM (System-Wide Average Metric) definition that decreases the likelihood of entering 4.A.2.b. and c., we have improved Section 1 with real job protections.

From the TA:

10. Except for a wet lease to be performed between November 15 and the last day of the December bid period, the Company shall not extend, renew, or enter into any new Section 1.B.6. wet lease agreements during a bid period in which Section 4.A.2.c. is implemented except as agreed to by the Association.
11.Should the Company issue a non-voluntary furlough notice pursuant to Section 23.A., all Section 1.B.6. wet leases shall be subject to a penalty of one SPR for every wet lease block hour flown thereafter until all pilots have reported for duty from a recall notice (or declined recall) or the last furloughed pilot ceases to accrue longevity as provided in Section 23.A.4., whichever is earlier. This penalty is in addition to any penalty required by Section 1.B.6., however, in no event shall the total penalty exceed 2.5x SPR per block hour wet leased. Before the end of the first quarter of each fiscal year, penalty payments due under this provision shall be distributed on a per capita basis to pilots who were on furlough when the penalty accrued.

Maybe I'm just missing the "Hard limits", but all I see is a prohibition against extending, renewing or entering into any new wet lease contracts during 4.A.2.c. I see no 'hard limits' and I'm pretty sure a second-year law or business student could figure a way to have a flexible long-term agreement written prior to entering 4.A.2.c... Rich was pretty condescending when asked a similar question during the road show and he talked about 'hard limits' and the NC email said they have 'hard limits', but for the life of me, I don't see it. Someone please help me connect the dots. Also, even if guys are furloughed the Company can STILL wet lease from Nov 15th through the end of December, so at most it's a 'soft limit' if you even call it a limit.

The MEC is lying to you. CBA2015 has hard limits, the MEC just doesn't want to defend them. The TA not only removes those hard limits, it also drastically DECREASES the penalty for violations of Section 1. This section alone is all the reason anyone who is paying attention needs to vote NO. The CBA is first and foremost about job protections, and Section 1 needs to be strengthened and made clear and unambiguous, not weakened and made muddier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClncClarence (Post 3658983)

What are you talking about? Section 1 was the last section TA’d before we entered mediation. I guess you and I have different definitions of ‘quickly’.

Yes, the timing is the important takeaway here. *shakes head*

If you think Fred is going to sit back and watch his whole life’s work and Billions of his money get put at risk, you are mistaken. He still owns the highest percentage of stock at 7.5%.

Who do you think other institutional share holders have loyalty to? Fred Smith or DE Shaw?

if Raj and his Team are going to shrink the size of the airline there isn’t a whole lot we can do. Of course we can try and get a better TA for payrates and retirement and scheduling, but if they have plans they will execute then either way. I will tell you what exactly happens in three years or more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3660038)

Who do you think other institutional share holders have loyalty to? Fred Smith or DE Shaw?

I'll play.

Option C - Benjamin Franklin

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3660038)

If you think Fred is going to sit back and watch his whole life’s work and Billions of his money get put at risk, you are mistaken. He still owns the highest percentage of stock at 7.5%.

Right. And the Busch family would NEVER sell Anheuser-Busch to a multinational conglomerate.

The Ford family would never build cars in Mexico since they invented the assembly line and the livable middle-class wage in the US.

I could go on all day.

Keep dreaming - and pull your head out.

I think you need to put your head back up yours. World is a better place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3660067)

I think you need to put your head back up yours. World is a better place.

Substantive, insightful, and filled with good information. Hall of fame post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3660038)

Fred doesn’t care who flies his planes anymore. Remember the “with or without you” letter?

ACMIs save so much money that a reliability hit here and there doesn’t matter so much either. People are used to being let down by corporate America now, and wallstreet is gonna capitalize on that.

fred won’t let Raj destroy FedEx, but he will let him replace us no doubt.