An easy method to decide
07-15-2023 | 10:03 AM
#41
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07-15-2023 | 10:31 AM
#42
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Okay let me try to help.
The plan is simple, but understanding all the rules takes a little time.
The first thing that should happen is the MEC should be professional enough to understand they failed to involve the pilots during the process. Being in transmit only mode did not work well. So they start a new survey to learn what they missed.
Next we the membership decide who we want the represent us. Resignations may also happen. Either way, we the membership will put in place the team we want going forward.
Next, the NC will need new blood. Fair enough. I have no doubt there are several ready to serve.
Along with the survey, the pilots will want to know the value and costs of the "efficiency Gains" in TA 1.0.
Then our new team will refocus and reengage.
Some other things to think about, we are going into a presidential election cycle. What do markets do during those times? Also the inventories stored during Covid are starting to dwindle, orders are up. We are seeing more extra pairing to bring extra freight from Asia.
In short, Even if we go into 4.a.2.b or c, it won't be for long. The training cost associated with the last round brought us New Section 24 to mitigate the training costs, which will still be high.
Further, any pilot furloughed will be welcomed at all the majors.
In short, We have to look past the smokescreens. Our future is brighter if we stand together and demand professional treatment and fair compensation.
If we take this TA, how long does it take to get back the work rules we give up in the name of "productivity gains"? I for one don't wish to find out.
The plan is simple, but understanding all the rules takes a little time.
The first thing that should happen is the MEC should be professional enough to understand they failed to involve the pilots during the process. Being in transmit only mode did not work well. So they start a new survey to learn what they missed.
Next we the membership decide who we want the represent us. Resignations may also happen. Either way, we the membership will put in place the team we want going forward.
Next, the NC will need new blood. Fair enough. I have no doubt there are several ready to serve.
Along with the survey, the pilots will want to know the value and costs of the "efficiency Gains" in TA 1.0.
Then our new team will refocus and reengage.
Some other things to think about, we are going into a presidential election cycle. What do markets do during those times? Also the inventories stored during Covid are starting to dwindle, orders are up. We are seeing more extra pairing to bring extra freight from Asia.
In short, Even if we go into 4.a.2.b or c, it won't be for long. The training cost associated with the last round brought us New Section 24 to mitigate the training costs, which will still be high.
Further, any pilot furloughed will be welcomed at all the majors.
In short, We have to look past the smokescreens. Our future is brighter if we stand together and demand professional treatment and fair compensation.
If we take this TA, how long does it take to get back the work rules we give up in the name of "productivity gains"? I for one don't wish to find out.
I appreciate your response, but that doesn't sound like much of a plan. I'm sure that people will step up, the surveys will be better, and we won't be in 4a2b very long if at all sounds like wishful thinking more than a plan.
Yes, the pax carriers are hiring, but contracts must raise the pay rate bar, right? If that is the case, then the only major that anyone will go to is Delta. AA didn't raise the bar. United doesn't have a TA.
You and a few other NO voters have stayed consistent, but most have flip flopped as soon as Delta got a TA. Now that they padded their bank, they want those who didn't to fight for them. I'm going to look out for me and my family now and not worry about the rest. That seems to be the plan for most, until they don't get what they want. And no, I don't have to retire under this TA unless it lasts for 12+ years.
07-15-2023 | 12:14 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2006
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This TA negotiates away our the future of the A plan in the form of a massive giveback to the company. So massive, our union won't tell us what the company is saving at sunsetting the plan. Moronic.
Givebacks to the company. As if the company were under economic duress.
The biggest of the other givebacks as you mention above, is the precedent-setting SMU bank. A bank for a supposed 40% of lines. For you super senior FO's who have taken the pay hit to stay senior and bid LCA lines, suck it! Our NC decided this was negotiable. They decided we needed to meet the company half way. Why? We should NEVER give up LCA bidding. This would be the first for an airline like ours, to sell away our senior training lines like that. On top of that, we all know the vague language surrounding the 40% leaves room for interpretation. Vice getting *********g paid for your super senior training line. Again, moronic.
Let's not be morons.
07-15-2023 | 12:49 PM
#45
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You and a few other NO voters have stayed consistent, but most have flip flopped as soon as Delta got a TA. Now that they padded their bank, they want those who didn't to fight for them. I'm going to look out for me and my family now and not worry about the rest. That seems to be the plan for most, until they don't get what they want. And no, I don't have to retire under this TA unless it lasts for 12+ years.[/QUOTE]
Spot on. Where was the unity and resolve when there was tons of draft, AVA and Vol all sucked up while we were in negotiations? Guys calling CRS and begging for more. Now the crying, well you pretty much have a TA that you deserve if you didn't give the union the support the last two years. And for DL to get the pay rates on their TA, were they negotiating a retirement plan also, no. Lots of people complaining about the pay rates and totally ignoring the additional compensation they are getting in this TA.
Spot on. Where was the unity and resolve when there was tons of draft, AVA and Vol all sucked up while we were in negotiations? Guys calling CRS and begging for more. Now the crying, well you pretty much have a TA that you deserve if you didn't give the union the support the last two years. And for DL to get the pay rates on their TA, were they negotiating a retirement plan also, no. Lots of people complaining about the pay rates and totally ignoring the additional compensation they are getting in this TA.
07-15-2023 | 12:52 PM
#46
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 23
From: Crewmember
You and a few other NO voters have stayed consistent, but most have flip flopped as soon as Delta got a TA. Now that they padded their bank, they want those who didn't to fight for them. I'm going to look out for me and my family now and not worry about the rest. That seems to be the plan for most, until they don't get what they want. And no, I don't have to retire under this TA unless it lasts for 12+ years.
How did Delta get such a great contract when they were flying as many green slips as we were flying draft?
None of the "don't fly draft" people can explain that.
Can you?
07-15-2023 | 12:53 PM
#47
Banned
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,244
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Spot on. Where was the unity and resolve when there was tons of draft, AVA and Vol all sucked up while we were in negotiations? Guys calling CRS and begging for more. Now the crying, well you pretty much have a TA that you deserve if you didn't give the union the support the last two years. And for DL to get the pay rates on their TA, were they negotiating a retirement plan also, no. Lots of people complaining about the pay rates and totally ignoring the additional compensation they are getting in this TA.
None of the "don't fly draft" people can explain that.
Can you?[/QUOTE]
Yes
07-15-2023 | 01:00 PM
#48
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,481
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From: Crewmember
07-15-2023 | 01:26 PM
#50
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How did Delta get such a great contract when they were flying as many green slips as we were flying draft?
None of the "don't fly draft" people can explain that.
Can you?[/QUOTE]
Trying to ease your conscious? You have any idea of what it is to be in a union or unity? Thousands of your fellow pilots sacrificed extra pay during negotiations in the belief that putting pressure on the company would result in a TA worthy of all. But those pilots who passed on the pay were stabbed in the back by the greed of others. You are now trying to justify your extra overtime by saying DL got a TA even though guys worked extra, nice try. I'm sure there are plenty of DL guys ****ed at the guys who flew GS's at DL. I get it, you are a, "I got mine" type of guy. Its greed like yours that makes it easy to vote Yes on this TA.
None of the "don't fly draft" people can explain that.
Can you?[/QUOTE]
Trying to ease your conscious? You have any idea of what it is to be in a union or unity? Thousands of your fellow pilots sacrificed extra pay during negotiations in the belief that putting pressure on the company would result in a TA worthy of all. But those pilots who passed on the pay were stabbed in the back by the greed of others. You are now trying to justify your extra overtime by saying DL got a TA even though guys worked extra, nice try. I'm sure there are plenty of DL guys ****ed at the guys who flew GS's at DL. I get it, you are a, "I got mine" type of guy. Its greed like yours that makes it easy to vote Yes on this TA.
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