Adlerdriver

Yes.
Absent specific instruction from the airline as with AA, you have no basis to support doing that. You’re talking about claiming time as an unqualified student pilot receiving instruction in the same category as a winged KC-10 co-pilot flying in an airframe where he is a required crew member.
Frankly, I’m very surprised AA has allowed that, but it’s their sandbox.

Hank Burley

Ok, then where do I put those hours under T-6/T-1? There is no student or dual time section? Since when can’t a student not be SIC? Pretty sure that you can log PIC as a student as well on a solo?

Adlerdriver

Where? How about total time.

Hank,
You're mistaking what FARs or Mil regulations might allow you to log and what airline X says they will allow in a particular category. They have nothing to do with each other.

SIC is a specific role in an aircraft that requires two pilots to operate. Can you fly a T-6 solo? Yes. Then putting another guy in the other seat (especially one that's a student) doesn't mean he's the SIC. One might be able to argue differently for a T-1, but in terms of applying to airlines, it's entirely up to them. If airline X says UPT student time in a T-6 or T-1 is okay to count as SIC, then do it. If not, then don't. If you want to go toe to toe with someone in an interview room and try to convince them that dual received student time in a T-6 or T-1 counts as SIC when their rules say something different, you're absolutely going to lose.

Same thing for solo UPT time. At one point, UAL didn't allow any time to be logged as PIC prior to having your wings. i.e. solo UPT time didn't count.
It's up to the airline.

Hank Burley

I understand what you are saying, and Airlineapps has specific areas to log student/dual time. But the new FEDEX app site doesn't have anything other than PIC, SIC, and Instructor. You can't simply fill out your total time for any aircraft, you must fill in your hours in 1 of those 3 categories. And having attended UPT I also do not think it's wise to leave out any any aircraft you have flown from the application. I just sent an email though to FEDEX ProQuestions for clarification so I will share what I find once they respond. Thanks

PurpleToolBox

You put it in your Total Time and not include it in PIC or SIC totals.

It’s as if these questions haven’t been asked 1000 times before.

Hank Burley

Are you familiar with FEDEX application? If so please explain to me where you can enter hours outside of the categories of PIC, SIC or instructor. There is no section for total time for each aircraft. So your only option then would be to not list those hours at all but If someone answers the question that they went to UPT but doesn’t have any T6 or T1 time on their application I am sure that will raise more questions than logging student time as as SIC. One of my good friends who is a recent hire at Fedex logged student time as SIC and there was no issues whatsoever in his interview.

rvfanatic

It’s pretty standard to log those hours as SIC and in the comments write “XX T-6 hrs flown dual in UPT but logged in this SIC column.” Don’t overthink it. You’d be better served getting your 8-10 stories ready of times you had a conflict with another crew member, why you want to fly for FedEx, times you dealt with fatigue etc. Good luck!

Micolay

This is what I did with my civilian dual received time before I was rated (non-solo instruction received before I had my private license, and multi dual training received before I had a multi license). In the comments section I wrote "SIC time is dual received not logged as PIC." If anybody ask in an interview, I did it that way so that my logbook matches with my application.

Adlerdriver

I think it's good you're seeking info directly from FedEx. Hopefully they clarify this for you and you can pass that on to others.

Perhaps this is just what it appears. FedEx is concerned about those who meet their hiring mins/preferred times which apparently have nothing do with total time. Maybe the assumption that times from the categories they do allow to be input into their application are somehow totaled to give an overall total time are wrong.

From the credentials section of their website:
1,500 multi engine turbine or Jet, that being either PIC or SIC (GTOW of 12.5K or more)

1,000 hrs of PIC Turbine (preferred) - also GTOW of 12.5K or more

So, maybe they only have inputs for PIC/SIC/IP because that's all they care about. It sounds like this is a situation that should be clarified. Putting student time in a SIC might have worked for some, but that really doesn't meet the letter of the law that FedEx has put on their credentials site.

T-6 is about half the 12.5K GTOW requirement, so is that even a factor in this discussion?

ViperDriver14

True. It would only apply to T-38C (12,800 GTOW).