tennesseeflyboy

Sounds like no one is getting offered sub anymore ? The essence of passing a TA agreement only to find out that the contract language is deficient after it is ratified, smacks of a need to do a contract language intent study and the need for all those involved to READ the proposed contract language instead of blindly approving such contract.
How is it that we cannot get a contract put together for this group that is forthcoming, inviolate and would not allow the company to put the screws to the crewforce ?

MD11Fr8Dog

Explain - I've been in sub more that past few weeks than the last few yrs all together!

Miso

Not sure about what you are referencing here either. If your trip cancels or you receive a reassignment trip (RAT) it should fall under substitution, and can you can choose to accept or reject it (with loss of pay)...

Eligibility for Substitution
A pilot is eligible for substitution if he is removed from a trip for which he is entitled to trip guarantee for any of the reasons listed in this paragraph. Pilots in MUV, MUS, CMU, AFB, VLT, DRF or reserve are not eligible for substitution. If a pilot is removed from a substitution trip for any of the reasons listed in this paragraph, he shall remain eligible for substitution based upon his original trip (i.e., the trip or series of trips that actually created the substitution eligibility), The following events generate substitution eligibility and, where noted, reassignment offers prior to substitution.

Trip Canceled
The trip is canceled for any reason; or
If a trip is canceled due to a change of gauge a pilot shall be offered the rebuilt trip for his aircraft as a SUB or RAT, if possible.
Trip Rescheduled Outside 4 Hour Window
The trip is rescheduled to begin more than 4 hours prior to its original showtime or to terminate more than 4 hours after its original termination time. Trips in this category must be offered to the pilot as a reassignment trip prior to the pilot being placed in substitution.

Showtime Moved Up Without Notice
The trip is rescheduled with a showtime at least 1 hour earlier than the original showtime and the pilot is not adequately notified of that change. For purposes of this paragraph, adequate notification occurs if:
the pilot checks in at or prior to the new showtime; or
he is notified of the change at least 8 hours prior to the new showtime; or
he is transiting his base on separate trips not interrupted by a legal rest period and he is notified of the change prior to the new showtime.

Weather Restrictions
The pilot is removed from the trip due to weather related restrictions.

FAR or Other Governing Authority
The pilot is removed from the trip because he will or is projected to exceed FAR limitations or because of other government controlled restrictions, (e.g., work visa not issued in time, revocation or denial of route authority).

Contract Limitations
The pilot is removed from the trip:
because he will or is projected to exceed limitations contained in this Agreement (e.g., precautionary weather pull);
because the Company has determined that he is ineligible to fly based on a general, uniformly applied set of criteria (e.g., lack of LCA on route familiarization segments); or
due to other circumstances expressly specified in this Agreement as giving rise to substitution eligibility.

Operational Conflict
If a trip is revised more than 24 hours prior to the showtime for that trip, and it causes a conflict with a subsequent trip, the revised trip shall be dropped and eligible for substitution. If a trip is revised within 24 hours of showtime, and the revision causes a conflict with a subsequent trip, the subsequent trip shall be dropped and be eligible for substitution, unless the first trip is eligible for substitution for some additional reason.

Training
The pilot is removed from the trip due to his recurrent training, other than as a phase-in conflict (See Section 25.F.1.c.).

HIFLYR

Might be this email from LEC 26
Here you’ve turned a work trip into a rare chance to meet up with your college buddy for dinner. All planned down to a great restaurant in his hometown he’s been wanting to show off. You check in for the trip and . . . crew notification. No big deal, probably an overlooked expense report receipt; no, not this time. Welcome to the quagmire we call “substitution.”



In this series of smaller articles, we will try to iron out some misconceptions and answer common questions. It’s not that the substitution decision tree doesn’t do a great job—it does! However, receipt of that crew notification is not the best time to have a first glance at your lime green chart.



Let’s start with a few “should I be in substitution?” misconceptions.



A revision does not always trigger substitution. Sec 25 S.1. states: “The Company may revise a pilot’s trip at any time in accordance with other provisions of this Agreement.” Also Section 25.H.2. details the eligibility for substitution. The purpose of this review isn’t to get anyone’s blood pressure up—and yes, we are in contract negotiations. There are common questions and hopefully, if you get your first look here, you will be better prepared to discuss questions. So, the company can revise your trip, which could change the destination, change an out and back to a layover (or vice versa), or perhaps even extend your trip. Many of these changes will trigger Disruption Pay (Section 25.S.2. & 25.V.), FAR Extensions (Section 25.T.) and/or Overages (Section 4.BB.).



What if I check in for my trip and there is no airplane for me? Here, Scheduling has some discretion. They have you potentially up to your duty limit. These wrinkles always happen during a launch, and we can try to remember they have a job to do. So, if Scheduling isn’t sure yet what to do with you, they may keep you in suspense for a bit; maybe grab a cup of coffee and catch up on some reading?



Summary:



Common question #1: Should I be in substitution for this?
A revision (Section 25.S.1.) does not always trigger substitution (Sec 25 H.2.)
A revision may trigger disruption pay, FAR extensions, and/or overage
When you check in for a trip, you could be revised to the duty limits without substitution being triggered

FlyBoyd

Not yours...

KnightFlyer

What he's saying is your flight has a change of gauge due to lack of crew or a/c then instead of SUB they do nothing. You are left hanging until released or out of duty time or given something completely different, but with the same Flt number. Pseudo-Reserve bypassing any seniority you had for a nice trip. The new gauge gets a different flt number but identical times, e.g. Flt 980, 981, .... No SUB, No turny-down new flight(s). It's affecting a lot of trips and it's total BS.

Nightflyer

I hope the NC is aware of this, and they will not agree to a TA unless there is concrete language to prevent it.

If we don't get it done now, they will continue to abuse us this way, and they will say it is "legal based on past practice".

I hope we have grieved this!

Have we?

IrishSkies

Yup, I can attest that this tactic is being used by CRS because I write this warning from my unscheduled layover hotel in a revised city.

I had a back end DH scheduled for my hometown this morning. At show time my trip was revised (same flight number) to land at a different city and theoretically DH home from there. Called CRS to inquire about it being Base Substitution and they just patched me directly to DO, he said it was legal and new trip was not an open time trip so no base sub and trip could not be refused. I fly it.
When we got off the plane the ramper told us to call CRS, you guessed it, no DH but a nice extension to fly the plane back to MEM tonight!
Hey, that sandwich does taste like $h!t.

In hindsight, I find it alarmingly suspicious that at the time I was forced to step to the jet in MEM, CRS had not changed my pairing to reflect the revised city back end travel plans.....so top line had MEM-revised city and return leg still had original city DH -MEM.
Was CRS too busy to update the pairing or had they already decided it didn't matter because we were never getting a DH from the revised city because they already had plans to extend us? I'll bet my kids college funds CRS had planned to extend us entire time but waited until we landed to spring it on us to keep it " legal".

The question is, how do you prove intent?

Nightflyer

I hope you have called the union and fully explained this tactic to them.

I hope the union has a smart lawyer that will actually be able to stop this.

If we don't have a smart lawyer that can stop this, than contract language needs to be introduced into the negotiations to stop this or no deal.

pinseeker

Call contract enforcement and grieve it. They know about it, but until someone grieves it, nothing will be done. It may not be the easiest path, but if we want to protect our contract, we have to attempt to hold the company accountable for liberal reinterpretations.